Progressive Culture in Cincinnati? Cincinnati v. Portland? (Green, Madison: to live in, young professionals)

[progmac]

hey, wait. i like sports bars, nobody beat me up in high school, and i like uptown. those things can go together. they are even putting a sports bar in OTR. something i like about Cincinnati compared to the new west is that I can talk sports with people. I remember once hanging at a bar out west, in the town where i lived, casually talking college football with a friend, and some ironic hiker butts his way into the conversation only to pretend like he didn't know how many points a touchdown was worth. None of that nonsense around here.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by progmac

I remember once hanging at a bar out west, in the town where i lived, casually talking college football with a friend, and some ironic hiker butts his way into the conversation only to pretend like he didn't know how many points a touchdown was worth.

For real? I would have decked him. Or dumped my beer in his lap.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

For real? I would have decked him. Or dumped my beer in his lap.

I felt like it! I said something like, "quit pretending like you don't know the basic rules of the most popular sport in the US." Such 'attitude' as I considered it, was very common, particularly among newish transplants.

[Obi-Cago]

Originally Posted by NicoleRic

Well, I feel the neighborhoods you mentioned have varying levels of safety and some vary greatly in different parts of the neighborhood. In Over the Rhine obviously south of Liberty feels safer than north of Liberty. Personally if an area has a lot of vacant buildings I would not feel comfortable living there. I have gone to Northside to go to Shake it Records since I could drive and have been very impressed by how much the neighborhood has improved over the past ten years. Clifton Gaslight is fine and I think Prospect Hill is too. Outside certain pockets I do not feel that the uptown neighborhoods are particularly safe places to live but I admit that while I am there almost every day I have never lived there.

Basically, you are going by what you "feel" to be safe but really don't base it on anything concrete, like crime rates, but rather your own perceptions. Nothing wrong with that. But let's seperate opinion from fact. While most of the redevelopment of OTR has taken place south of Liberty, to call north of Liberty unsafe is not accurate either. Mulberry Street, Prospect Hill, and Findlay Market are all north of Liberty and all quite safe. My point is it's difficult to over generalize what is safe and what is not.

But then again we have home invasion murders in Fairfield these days...so exactly where is safe?

Originally Posted by NicoleRic

It seems most who defend the current crime levels prefer many areas of the city be a place where it is expected that at some point you will have your car or house broken into or be mugged if it means that these areas will remain a haven for artists and gays and keeps the "sports bar crowd" out. There's nothing wrong with that but currently there are not enough artists living in this city to fill all the vacant buildings that are rotting. Some seem to want the city to get national attention for turning itself around and yet they really don't want that. The city is never going to turn itself around if it can't attract all kinds of people and it definitely needs more neighborhoods that can attract the middle class and families if it wants to thrive. There will always be gritty areas for artists. If not, that is certainly a very long way off.

I think it is simplistic to label those who want crime to get better as being "afraid of the city." I would feel comfortable living in the CBD, for one. A place can be urban with character and not feel unsafe. East Walnut Hills in recent years is a good example.

The problem with your argument is that it's not very knowledgeble. The Enquirer just did an article on downtown living and broke demographics down somewhat. It seems that we have hipsters, yuppies, empty nesters, young singles, and families - and they are all flocking to downtown and OTR. They can't put in housing fast enough - and the enquirer goes on to say as much. You should educate yourself before coming here to lecture us on what the city can and can't do. Especially because the city is already doing what you are lecturing us about - reducing crime and attracting all kinds of residents to it's urban core.

And for a place that you consider "feels safe" - east walnuit hills. Many people on city data forums consider it unsafe, even though crime rates prove otherwise. So we are back to opinion and things being subjective to your point of view. Again, nothing wrong with that - but let's talk facts.

[neilworms2]

hey, wait. i like sports bars, nobody beat me up in high school, and i like uptown. those things can go together. they are even putting a sports bar in OTR. something i like about Cincinnati compared to the new west is that I can talk sports with people. I remember once hanging at a bar out west, in the town where i lived, casually talking college football with a friend, and some ironic hiker butts his way into the conversation only to pretend like he didn't know how many points a touchdown was worth. None of that nonsense around here.

Wow, while that is rude, I'd like to be in a place like that - the sports fanaticism of the Midwest drives me crazy sometimes (I'm not a huge fan - sports isn't some kind of religious experience for me, though its a fun way for exercise I'm just not a fan of the athlete worship that clouds people's judgement an awful lot like with silly stadium deals and what not).

On the flip side, sports fans are welcome in urban areas. I'm sure the entire sum of Wrigleyville in Chicago would have made fun of JMecklenborg back in high school. While that's not my scene, I'm happy there is a place for them that contributes to the vibrancy of the city. I feel the same way about 6th street bars in Cincinnati - it really beats what that same crowd did when I was in college - running around campus in cars in front of all their frat houses hanging out the windows cheering loud WHOOS (which was really really sad IMO better for them to have things to do and places to hang out).

[progmac]

Originally Posted by neilworms2

Wow, while that is rude, I'd like to be in a place like that - the sports fanaticism of the Midwest drives me crazy sometimes (I'm not a huge fan - sports isn't some kind of religious experience for me, though its a fun way for exercise I'm just not a fan of the athlete worship that clouds people's judgement an awful lot like with silly stadium deals and what not).

Just get in your car and drive west. My example may not have suggested it, but I am a big fan of the west and it is there for anybody. Boise is the next big spot.

[NicoleRic]

Obi-Cago:
I have not seen anyone else bring any facts to the table either. You stated your opinion and you disagree with me, which is fine. Outside of Mulberry Street and Findlay Market during the day North of Liberty feels largely abandoned, imo. I consider Prospect Hill to be a part of Mt Auburn. The Enquirer article was detailing the CBD and the Washington Park area and Vine Street South of Liberty. I have never personally talked to anyone who feels comfortable venturing outside these areas outside of Main Street and Findlay Market. That does not mean that everyone feels this way or has to feel this way.

I feel that you think I am saying that when living in parts of the basin or uptown you will become a victim of crime eventually. I do not necessarily think this is the case and maybe I did not put that across clearly. I am aware that if you are not involved in the drug trade you will not be shot and that rape victims typically know their attackers. The problem I have personally is with muggings and robberies. I have had my car broken into several times on side streets off Auburn Avenue in Mt Auburn and while I never leave valuables there it does get old after a while. There are just too many streets with poor lighting and abandoned buildings which feels unsafe and leaves a poor impression. IMO

I'm in the uptown area all the time and just because I disagree with you does mean that I lack knowledge. You feel that I am lecturing you but I do not know you and know nothing about you. My opinion has nothing to do with you personally. I feel that too many areas of the city are run down and look dumpy and that most people agree with me on this point. Others prefer it to remain the way it is and keep its grit. That is fine, everyone has different preferences.

[Obi-Cago]

Originally Posted by NicoleRic

Obi-Cago:
I have not seen anyone else bring any facts to the table either. You stated your opinion and you disagree with me, which is fine

I very plainly built my post around two verifiable facts:

1 - The enquirere recently did an article detailing downtown development, and did a brief breakdown on who is living there.

2 - Crime is down in Cincinnati.

Google is your friend. I am out for now.

[NicoleRic]

I am going to leave this too, as it is touchy subject. I apologize if I offended anyone or dissed your favorite neighborhood. I grew up in Colerain Township which is as run down in many areas as the neighborhoods we were discussing. The crime issues there are well documented. Neighborhoods like Mt Auburn, Walnut Hills and Over the Rhine have many more things going for them then a place like Colerain, though. They are MUCH better planned, have much better architecture, are in a better location, etc. Everyone knows that and I have to believe that they will reach their full potential someday. By reaching their full potential I mean relatively safe, vacant storefronts and abandoned buildings filled, and also a place where artists, the middle class, and lower incomes can all find a place.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by Obi-Cago

I very plainly built my post around two verifiable facts:

1 - The enquirere recently did an article detailing downtown development, and did a brief breakdown on who is living there.

2 - Crime is down in Cincinnati.

Google is your friend. I am out for now.

I realize the Enquirer did a story. But for what it's worth, every story, without exception, that I ever read in the Enquirer on a topic I was personally familiar with, was riddled with inaccuracies. Yeah, they probably got the general drift right on this one, but I'd be willing to wager they got plenty wrong, too. I realize this is not your main point. But I cringe every time I see someone citing them as a reputable information source. They are not.