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Old 12-28-2012, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis and Cincinnati
682 posts, read 1,389,021 times
Reputation: 610

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@ Kjbill : People in our neighorhood gave no problem co-operating with the police. We have an active crime watch program. Neighbors have installed security cameras on the front of their homes, Everyone carried a camera last summer and we had no problem taking photos of the drug dealers who were driving through our neighborhood dealing. Those photos are sent to our liason officer and forwarded to the district. I, and others, routinely called 911 when we saw drug dealing, and the police were able to make several key arrests as deals went down. The dealers figured out that our area was no place to deal and moved on.

We work with the city on getting the illegal apartment conversions shut down. We got restraining orders against the criminal element that 'threatened" Association board members. When a motorcycle gang tried to move in to our neighborhood we worked with city inspection to get the property (which had outstanding orders) bulldozed.

We bought key distressed properties that had been hang outs for addicts and are stabilizing them and reselling them to owner occupants who will complete the restoration. When you ask the commander of district 3 wher the crime comes from now? It's not our area. The criminals can't do business as usual and they have moved on.

Speaking for our residents, we wouldnt' care if there was a swat team with automatics and canons parked in our neighborhood. We are not afraid of the police but the criminals are, and more importantly they are afraid of the neighbors that live here because they know we will call the police at the drop of a hat.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:19 AM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,025,683 times
Reputation: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Sorry, I just don't think having the police all look like members of a Swat Team does a lot for public confidence. Who is it supposed to put the fear of god into, the public or the criminal element? The police need the confidence of the public to come forward and state what they have seen or know. Failure to do this is one of the biggest problems the police have. Getting the police out into the neighborhoods, circulating and mingling with the citizens should help this, providing their demeanour does not scare the ordinary citizen away.
The only people who need be scared of the police are those that are breaking the law. Why should/would an "ordinary citizen" care? I'm not a fan of the para-military style uniforms, but you are talking like people react to it like the cops are jack-booted brown shirts liable to kick someone's head in. I just don't get that line of thinking, but then again, I obey the law.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,832,929 times
Reputation: 924
Not bashing on Brill, but I think he doesn't get it because where he lives has a low crime rate. I live in a decent area, at the moment, but have lived in some very rough neighborhoods before. Neighborhoods where neighbors were scared to cooperate with law enforcement because you would get your house shot up if found out. Myself and other neighbors did manage to slowly improve things somewhat by doing coordinated, anonymous calls to the police for drug dealing, prostitution, etc. We did it anon., not so the cops wouldn't know, but so the callers were not on public record. Drug dealers were brazen enough to check.

I am not a fan of militarized police, but do fully understand that they need the firepower, equipment, and training to counter the thugs they are up against.

I can say in retrospect, the only time I did go public with the law was when I caught a burgler leaving my neighbors house in the middle of a sunny Saturday afternoon. He was arrested on my description and I went to court to identify him. He copped a plea deal and gave up his friends, who weren't there, but part of a larger burglary ring. They got full sentences, while he agreed to four years of stated prison time.
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,377,243 times
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Certainly those neighborhoods which have associations, citizen watch groups, and the like to cooperate and also keep the police advised of what is going on are to be commended.

And the police must have access to firepower, armour, etc. equal to or exceeding the criminal element at a moments notice.

I am just saying there still seems to be a widespread citizen lack of cooperating with the police, likely due to fear of reprisals. I consider this a perfectly normal reaction. If you go down the list of unsolved crimes, everything from burglary to shootings to murders a constant which stands out is inability to pursue due to lack of citizen input, the old nobody saw nothing attribute.

I believe a good thing would to go back to a system where the police are required to live in the neighborhoods they serve.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,377,243 times
Reputation: 1920
I also wanted to say I believe the City is not the only place with apathy and/or fear for police cooperation.

Where I live we are fortunate to have a low crime rate, one of the reasons I moved here and a reason I stay. But I do find fault with our local police. I see them frequently riding around town in their large cruisers. I think to myself what is the purpose of that, do they expect to catch criminals in the act? And at the cost of cruisers and gas today I consider it a waste of money. I certainly do not view it as interacting with the neighborhood as they drive by with no personal contact.

I also see them parked at obscure locations in residential neighborhoods with 25 mph speed limits and radar guns pointed. When you see them stop someone you would think they had just apprehended John Dillinger. Perhaps the inherent dangers of their job keeps them on edge at all times? Or are they just trained in the art of intimidation, which they cannot turn off for ordinary citizens?

If horses are prohibitively expensive to keep these days, then put them on segways for in town patrol. A lot more personal contact than a cruiser. They might actually stop and talk to a citizen or two. Of course they may also have to wear a rain slick or a winter parka and that may be too much of a hindrance.

I certainly respect our police, but feel they have become too withdrawn from association with the ordinary citizen. We need a better plan to foster trust and cooperation.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:21 AM
 
Location: In a happy place
3,707 posts, read 6,575,440 times
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Our police ride around town in their cruisers too. And they stop and chat with the residents from time to time, if not, they at least wave as they go by. They are out and can respond quickly if a call comes in. They all have at least basic first aid training and are almost always at the scene first, before the EMS, if a medical emergency comes in.

I have seen them stop and talk with people who are doing obviously stupid things (like playing bike tag on the main state highway going through town) and I have seen them stop and help a youngster who was struggling to put the chain back on his bicycle.

Yes, they have to stop the traffic violators and they have picked up some drug dealers. Here, they manage to do both with the respect and support of most of the citizens.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:01 AM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,025,683 times
Reputation: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I am just saying there still seems to be a widespread citizen lack of cooperating with the police, likely due to fear of reprisals. I consider this a perfectly normal reaction. If you go down the list of unsolved crimes, everything from burglary to shootings to murders a constant which stands out is inability to pursue due to lack of citizen input, the old nobody saw nothing attribute.

I believe a good thing would to go back to a system where the police are required to live in the neighborhoods they serve.
This is the root of it...not fear OF the police, as you stated yesterday, but rather fear of thugs and reprisals for being a snitch. Until the cycle of the community providing de facto protection for criminals can be broken, none of this will change. I don't blame this on the police; it's the citizen's responsibility to man up and help the police do their job.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,832,929 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
This is the root of it...not fear OF the police, as you stated yesterday, but rather fear of thugs and reprisals for being a snitch. Until the cycle of the community providing de facto protection for criminals can be broken, none of this will change. I don't blame this on the police; it's the citizen's responsibility to man up and help the police do their job.
Also, some of not cooperating with police comes back to not liking/trusting the police. This especially prevalent in communities that deal with poverty and unemployment. Sometimes people have to resort to the underground economy just to survive. And who am I to judge not having walked in their shoes.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:52 AM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,025,683 times
Reputation: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Also, some of not cooperating with police comes back to not liking/trusting the police. This especially prevalent in communities that deal with poverty and unemployment. Sometimes people have to resort to the underground economy just to survive. And who am I to judge not having walked in their shoes.
History is littered with corrupt cops and I have had a few encounters over the years with cops that have been jerks, but I can envision no justifiable reason to not trust today's Cincinnati cops, unless of course you are doing something illegal. I don't have sympathy for people who hate cops because they are doing their jobs. If you get busted doing something illegal, at least be honest with yourself and don't play the victim. I don't blame the cop when I get pulled over for speeding. Not all poor people have to resort to illegal activities to survive. I've known some very honest and forthright poor people...being poor does not impair your ability to discern right and wrong.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,832,929 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
...being poor does not impair your ability to discern right and wrong.
Ya, but being hungry does. Like I said I am not one to judge. It doesn't mean I agree with, or support it. I am just saying I can at least approach the situation for what it is, and from a stand point of empathy, not sympathy.

For a moment, can you detach yourself from your background and point of view and envision yourself poor as dirt and caught between the neighborhood alligator and corrupt cops? I can understand why people don't cooperate. I don't trust the police. They are out there to do a very tough job. But they are not my friends. And I am someone who answers yes sir and no sir out of respect for their authority.
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