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Old 12-29-2012, 01:31 PM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,953,678 times
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My dad, as mild-mannered and law-abiding an individual as you'd ever want to meet, raised me from babyhood on saying "a person who deals with the kind of people the police do has to be just as tough as they are." And he didn't mean tough in a positive or complimentary way. As I grew older I realized the issues are a lot more nuanced, but that early indoctrination has never completely left me. I assume I might be dealing with someone thuggish or at least potentially thuggish until I can observe otherwise.

Interestingly enough, the one time I was arrested--which was not in this area--the officer treated me with a lot of courtesy, concern and respect. That was many years ago but I still remember how grateful I was.
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:12 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,024,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Ya, but being hungry does. Like I said I am not one to judge. It doesn't mean I agree with, or support it. I am just saying I can at least approach the situation for what it is, and from a stand point of empathy, not sympathy.
Oh yeah? When's the last time someone got shot or knifed in Cincinnati over a loaf of bread? Unless of course the bread contains dope, then yes, I would agree with you. I think we could handle the kind of crime (if any) that was driven by hunger in this country.
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,830,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
Oh yeah? When's the last time someone got shot or knifed in Cincinnati over a loaf of bread? Unless of course the bread contains dope, then yes, I would agree with you. I think we could handle the kind of crime (if any) that was driven by hunger in this country.
I didn't think you would get it. It's easy to judge, have at it. Later.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,369,950 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Ya, but being hungry does. Like I said I am not one to judge. It doesn't mean I agree with, or support it. I am just saying I can at least approach the situation for what it is, and from a stand point of empathy, not sympathy.
I agree, hunger is a much bigger problem in this country than most people realize. Far too many children go hungry most of the time. If you don't think this is true, ask anyone who is an administrator in a public school system. They actually worry during an extended holiday period or the summer break about students whose only balanced meal may be the one they get at school.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:51 AM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,024,518 times
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Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I agree, hunger is a much bigger problem in this country than most people realize. Far too many children go hungry most of the time. If you don't think this is true, ask anyone who is an administrator in a public school system. They actually worry during an extended holiday period or the summer break about students whose only balanced meal may be the one they get at school.
No one said hunger was not a problem. I dispute that hunger is the proximate cause of crime. Hunger is a symptom and a result of other factors.

You open another can of worms, though...schools as social welfare agencies. Since when is it the responsibility of public schools to feed people's children? I don't want to see kids go hungry, but this is not the mission of public schools. If you divert funds from the central mission of education for feeding kids and all of the other social agency services now provided by schools, something has to give. And what suffers is a broad-based education. Please show me the evidence that schools feeding kids is resulting in better educations and higher graduation rates. If I look at the schools where these services are needed and used most, I would say it is not achieving the intended result.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:00 PM
 
Location: In a happy place
3,707 posts, read 6,571,615 times
Reputation: 7332
Studies have shown that students learn better if they aren't having to listen to their stomachs rumbling.

MD A Full Stomach Leads to Better Learning, Schools Say

Importance of Breakfast for Students



The schools are being used as a distribution system for the lunch (and breakfast) programs, as that is where the students are. Many schools have taken on community service projects where they collect food donations and send it home with needy students on weekends to help them get through the weekend. Learning to help others, if not being taught at home, can help the world become just a little nicer place for all to live.

Our park department has had a program for the last several summers, collecting food donations, and providing a nutritious lunch for youngsters who need and desire it throughout the summer break. It has grown each year since they started, both in donations received and people served.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,369,950 times
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I agree schools have become social welfare programs. At the same time, who is better equipped to take on the task? They see the students every day, and should be in a position to evaluate their social needs also. What needs to be done is to fund the schools for their social programs separate from the academic programs.

As far as summer break, etc. utilize the school buildings then also. If some of the social programs warrant both breakfast and lunch, serve them. Utilize those buildings to the max.

I have been an advocate of year-round school for some time now. A couple of centuries ago, when we were more of an agrarian society, the school summer recess was to permit kids to assist in their family farm. The number who do this today is inconsequential.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:10 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,024,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrtechno View Post
Studies have shown that students learn better if they aren't having to listen to their stomachs rumbling.

MD A Full Stomach Leads to Better Learning, Schools Say

Importance of Breakfast for Students



The schools are being used as a distribution system for the lunch (and breakfast) programs, as that is where the students are. Many schools have taken on community service projects where they collect food donations and send it home with needy students on weekends to help them get through the weekend. Learning to help others, if not being taught at home, can help the world become just a little nicer place for all to live.

Our park department has had a program for the last several summers, collecting food donations, and providing a nutritious lunch for youngsters who need and desire it throughout the summer break. It has grown each year since they started, both in donations received and people served.
I didn't say that kids don't need to eat. I said it's not the responsibility of the schools to feed them. Some schools are now feeding kids three times a day. That takes away resources from the job that the schools are supposed to do, and I would argue HURTS those children whose families take responsibility for feeding them. I also don't think that the public school should be the default welfare agency just because it is convenient.

I won't argue that a well fed kid is more likely to learn, but again, nothing in these articles says anything about better achievement as a result. Even the principal quoted in the one article can't attest to success in increasing attendance or reducing tardiness.

Additionally, there is something more insidious if you read between the lines in the article...parents who were capable of feeding their kids, but thought they were missing out on a freebie. These food programs play into the growing entitlement mentality in this country, and frankly may be doing more harm than good by teaching these kids to take handouts. They don't learn personal responsibility, and the parents reinforce that by encouraging that behavior.

I know it feels good to offer these kinds of programs, but in the long run, I think they can do more to defeat their intended purpose because they ignore something very fundamental...human nature. People will take advantage if given the opportunity, and you institutionalize the welfare state.

Again, look at the graduation rates and incarceration rates of kids who largely benefit from these types of programs versus other kids. There are other factors at work.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,830,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
I dispute that hunger is the proximate cause of crime..
Probably, cause you never been hungry,
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:44 PM
 
Location: In a happy place
3,707 posts, read 6,571,615 times
Reputation: 7332
If you read my post carefully, you will see that I never said the schools were using resources that could be better used on other educational activities to feed the students, I said the schools are being used as a DISTRIBUTION system for these programs. There are programs that provide a safety net for families where the parents are unemployed or underemployed. The schools have the resources already in place to best facilitate these programs (cafeterias).

Many people are crying for streamlining government programs by consolidating efforts. Here is one that is working pretty well, but some are still finding fault. Here is a program to help feed needy children. There is a step being avoided here. Instead of providing funds to the parents to buy food to feed the kids, which may or may not happen, the kids are provided with food, so we know that the end goal is being achieved.

True, there are some people who will try to "work" the system, but overall the benefits are more likely to outweigh the potential pitfalls.

Having worked in a school system when the breakfast program was begun, I can assure you that, at least in our system, there was a great deal of planning and evaluation before the first breakfast was served.
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