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Old 02-20-2013, 09:28 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,747,512 times
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Pretty amazing if they are going to tear id down....since it was the mansion of a famous brewer who has a new beer named after him.....

but, hey, its ALL good....
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
Pretty amazing if they are going to tear id down....since it was the mansion of a famous brewer who has a new beer named after him.....

but, hey, its ALL good....
Unfortunately, it comes down to what the owner wants to do with it. It's unfortunate because a landmark, and corner will be demolished. But, I wouldn't want to be told I couldn't sell my properties. I have to respect what the owner wants to do, and if he gets rich in the process, then more power to him.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis and Cincinnati
682 posts, read 1,387,611 times
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The condition of the building's facade would not preclude its consideration for historic status. Historic status is not conferred solely on the integrety of architecture. One of the possible avenues for historic nomination is History. i.e owned by someone instrumental in Cincinnati History. Certainly this house fits that criteria.

The facade could eventually be restored as there are historic photos that would guide in its documentation.

So the fact that the buildings facade has been altered does not mean the building would not be eligible for landmark status. There are a lot of buildings that are not architect designed or even particulary outstanding that are landmarked due to historical ownership or events that happened there.

The issue is where do you go with that? If those determined to 'save' the building proceed with a nomination application what happens? Probably the building gets demoed eventually because national registry status would not prevent a building from demolition , UNLESS certain federal dollars are being used, or certain governmental agencies (like the army corps of engineers) is involved. This is not the case.

What this will and can do, is draw the process out, potentially for years, meaning the developer may simply walk away. That happens all the time but given this is a viable project they may not. They will spend hundreds of thousands in addiotional development costs and legal fees in this process.

So what is the solution?

This structure can be moved likely at a cost of 300K. Foundation and land acquisition will probably be another 100K. If I were the people trying to save this, I'd hire a lawyer to negotiate. The land might be free if the city owned some nearby

Legal fees on the part of the owner and developer could run hundreds of thousands. For example Green Acres foundation has spend over 450,000.00 in legal fees trying to tear down the Gamble house and over a year.

I would propose that a solution might be to move the building with the current owner and the developer kicking in the cost. It would be far better solution that spending years in court and large sums of money on legal fees. In fact the reloction of this building in the right area could spur renovation of nearby homes to it.

The building could be set up as a foundation, monies could be raised for its restoration and it could be operated as a house museum with an emphasis on Brewery history. This would be a win for everyone. The building is saved (and eventually restored). The owner and developer get what they want and history is preserved. I would imagine the city might even find a way to provide some assistance. If the groups involved trully want to save it this is the most logical way to do it.

Now this would involve two things not normally found in Cincinnati 1.) Common Sense and 2.) Cooperation.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by restorationconsultant View Post
The condition of the building's facade would not preclude its consideration for historic status. Historic status is not conferred solely on the integrety of architecture......
Thanks for the informative post.

I would have to say the main reason for opposing the development is keeping Clifton Heights the same, and less to do with actually appreciating and caring about Christy's. This neighborhood has changed so very much from what it used to be, that there is a small but vocal contingent that has unsuccessfully fought changes for years. Fact is, this neighborhood is in UC's economic foot print, and as the campus grows, the surrounding neighborhoods will change to keep pace.

My 2 cents anyway.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:13 PM
 
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Default Remodel

It would be nice to see Christys be bought by someone who could remodel it to keep up with the changing campus life but also still hold a part of history with it. The new developers are only focused on making more money which is understandable because it is their job but hopefully an agreement will be reach or another idea that can save the development. The idea of putting together the funds to move the building seems like a good idea because then the campus can continue to expand while also saving a historic landmark, but if they owners are not trying to reach an agreenment with the The CUF Neighborhood Association to save the building then I doubt they will accept any other offers after being offered so much from the development corporations.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:40 AM
 
181 posts, read 229,602 times
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I hate to see the old structures go. It's like losing a piece of Cincinnati's history and character. It's even worse when they're replaced with a parking lot or some pre-fab looking fast food place that'll probably be gone or falling apart in 20 years. I know it would take more resources to rehab the old places but, in the long run, if an entire area with any kind of history is preserved, I'd think it would have a good chance to do just as well, if not better economically. There are still a number of old structures lining Ludlow, and it gives the Gaslight area so much character.

I grew up in a small town in Ohio, with a city square built around a beautiful, old courthouse. In it's prime, it's where everybody shopped, with small hardware stores, pharmacies, five and dimes....we all know what's happened over the years with the rise of the big box stores.

What's funny to see around the major cities here in Texas is the rise of "town centers" in the suburbs and smaller cities. They're basically trying to replicate a small town shopping area again, only usually with more upscale stores. They're very "trendy" but they still have kind of a "phony" facade feeling to them. We're kind of going "full circle" again.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:13 PM
 
Location: OH
688 posts, read 862,989 times
Reputation: 364
Just saw this thread was refreshed. Has there been any movement on this potential sale?
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
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Originally Posted by Zen_master View Post
Just saw this thread was refreshed. Has there been any movement on this potential sale?
Not to my knowledge.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:24 PM
 
Location: OH
688 posts, read 862,989 times
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Looks like a sale is pending and the decision whether to designate the former Moerlein Mansion an historic landmark is in the hands of Cincinnati city council.

Clifton Heights landmark Christy's bar, beer garden close suddenly

Christy and the Winholtz ownership terminated operations by the former employees who had hopes to buy them out and takeover the operations on a more permanent basis.

Sounds like it is wait-and-see at the moment.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
477 posts, read 529,700 times
Reputation: 275
The coucil decided to deny its historic status, bye bye more of clifton heights to more crap architecture - http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...ve-Goetz-House

On the flip side the much less historically significant farmers hotel was saved from the slimeball who neglected it, what was the difference here?

Northside building likely to be designated historic today | Politics Extra

Oh Cincinnati you will destroy everything you have before you realize just how special you were! :P
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