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Old 01-14-2013, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,918 times
Reputation: 924

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
A pretty pathetic attempt to devalue my opinions. Where did I say restoration attempts are doomed to fail?
Not at all. Now that you explained yourself a little better I can see where you are coming from. Otherwise, I am left to wonder what you are getting at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I simply stated those who devote a lot of time, energy, and money to such need to reflect on what will come of them once they are no longer around. It is a simple fact older restrored propety will rapidly deteriorate unless some dedicated person is there to maintain their upkeep.
It's not a simple fact at all, it's just plain wrong. Older homes have been standing over a hundred years in some cases. Restoring them will make them last that much longer, especially when done correctly with options that don't require heavy maintenance.

But just to be sure, do you really think those crappy tract homes in Mason will stand the test of time the way these old homes in Cincinnati have?
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,360,925 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Not at all. Now that you explained yourself a little better I can see where you are coming from. Otherwise, I am left to wonder what you are getting at.



It's not a simple fact at all, it's just plain wrong. Older homes have been standing over a hundred years in some cases. Restoring them will make them last that much longer, especially when done correctly with options that don't require heavy maintenance.

But just to be sure, do you really think those crappy tract homes in Mason will stand the test of time the way these old homes in Cincinnati have?
Just depends on what you say is the test of time. Do I expect my house will be standing here a hundred years or more from now? Hell No. At the same time I have seen very few houses (none) a hundred or more years old I ever wanted to live in. Sure, if you invest enough money you can make a hundred year old home livable, maybe even enjoyable. But you basically totally rebuild it. With enough money I can rebuild anything, that does not mean I deem it practical.

I have already told the kids when your mom andI kick the bucket have the house torn down - level it, because we have no intention of keeping it up to market value. Market value, what is that, what someone else will pay for it? I could care less what someone else will pay for it. I am only concerned what value it has for me and the wife as long as we live here.

And since we have had a zero mortgage for well over 10 years now, love living here in the city of Mason, love our neighborhood of widely spaced houses, love the Springer Spaniel dogs our neighbor has who run over to our house for their treats, love putting out food for the squirrels, chipmunks, and all of the birds, we are happy. Even the elevator we installed for the wife to get between the two floors as she cannot do stairs is workable. She doesn't love it, but it beats a nursing home.

I tell the kids, start out with the 1 acre lot. By that time land will be a definite premium. If someone is willing to buy the house as is, then sell it otherwise level it.

To me, a house has only one purpose, to house you for the time you live in it. My current house is the greatest investment I ever made. We moved from a very small, 3-bedroom ranch home in Madeira, you could barely call it a 5 room house, as the kitchen had barely 5 ft of counter space, to a 10 room, 5-bedroom house in Mason with over double the square footage plus a full basement. I sold the house in Madeira for 2.8 times what I bought it for and bought the house in Mason for 50% more than I sold the house in Madeira. Over twice the house, 2.5 times the land, I was happy as Hell and still am.

This is why I contend the biggest problem facing Cincinnati is jobs and retention of jobs. Talk about restoration of significant properties, rejuvenation of downtown, all of those pall to comparison and will not survive unless we produce and retain enough jobs to provide an income to support families.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,918 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Just depends on what you say is the test of time. Do I expect my house will be standing here a hundred years or more from now? Hell No. At the same time I have seen very few houses (none) a hundred or more years old I ever wanted to live in. Sure, if you invest enough money you can make a hundred year old home livable, maybe even enjoyable. But you basically totally rebuild it. With enough money I can rebuild anything, that does not mean I deem it practical.
It all depends on the condition of the home. If it's been abused and abandoned but can be grabbed on the cheap, then restoration costs could be significantly less than a new home with a mortgage. Not to mention someone could buy the run down property with cash or a cash advance from a credit card. Someone like me, who has years of construction experience could really make out. Otherwise, a person could always work to secure financing. You would be surprised how much can be salvaged in these old homes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I have already told the kids when your mom andI kick the bucket have the house torn down - level it, because we have no intention of keeping it up to market value. Market value, what is that, what someone else will pay for it? I could care less what someone else will pay for it. I am only concerned what value it has for me and the wife as long as we live here.
Why not rent it out, instead of paying for it to be torn down? If they didn't want the responsibility they could have a property management company handle if for them. I have no mortgage on my home in Dayton either and it's nice having the extra income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
To me, a house has only one purpose, to house you for the time you live in it. My current house is the greatest investment I ever made.
It all depends. The housing crash and subsequent foreclosure crisis pretty much destroyed the idea ( for me ) of a home being an investment from the vantage point of building equity. I won't fall for that. On the other hand, having rental properties as an investment or income works very well for a lot of people if they can manage a business. I think for my generation, the game has changed.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis and Cincinnati
682 posts, read 1,387,817 times
Reputation: 609
Our particular house was built in 1871, it stayed in the same family for over 130 years. If my neighborhood is financially viable and others see value in it, then why can't it continue? I went to Europe a few years back and saw property that was several hundred years old and still occupied.

Our problem in America , is that we believe new is better. It's a failing of our educational system and a dumbing down of our children.

Once again the suburbanite views of urban neighborhoods are typically shortsighted.

For example, I suspect most of OTR and urban neighborhoods , will be standing long after Mason , and other suburban enc;aves, have been leveled for section 8 housing.

Cities, and suburbs, have a cycle. Cincinnati suburbia hasn't yet realized its decline, but if this city follows the path of other cities, then it is coming.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:57 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,748,743 times
Reputation: 2953
Quote:
It is a simple fact older restrored propety will rapidly deteriorate unless some dedicated person is there to maintain their upkeep. Why is that a simple fact, simply because they are old and old tends to deteriorate faster.
What?

Im sorry, no. Ongoing maintenance is necessary for the upkeep of any structure, not just historic ones.

If you do a restoration you are essentially "resetting the odometer" on a building, thus you get another 30-40 years of economic life out of it, maybe more...depending on the building system or assembly. Typically, building skin and substructure, which would be wood, brick, or stone in the examples we are talking about (maybe steel or iron), can last over 100 years (with painting, for wood, and tuckpointing, for masonry). Roofs vary..slate has a very long life span, too.


Here's an example: My grandparents lived in a building built in the late 1600s (in Germany) and that building is still standing, modernized of course. Then my grandfather retired and got a retirement job as a caretaker for a gatehouse in the town wall, where he lived and which was built in the 1300s - 1400s...yes, it was that old, but was periodically fixed up and modernized for modern habitation.

So I don't buy this arguement.

Sure if there is no one to keep things up, as in routine maintenance and periodic bigger fixes as things wear out, things will deteriorate. But that is true for modern as well as historic properties.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:04 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,748,743 times
Reputation: 2953
Quote:
The city would rather keep a few demo contractors in business.
..heh...you should check out Dayton. One of the city commissioners is a big advocate for demolition, and she is getting campaign contributions from demolition contractors. She is running for mayor, too.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,918 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
But that is true for modern as well as historic properties.
What remains to be seen is how well modern tract homes out in new developments will stand the test of time. I've been in construction for over twenty years. I've done new construction, renovations, and historic preservation. The vast majority of new constuction is thrown together and not much more than wooden framing, clothed in press board. Compare that to any one of the historic buildings in Cincinnati, where the brick walls are 4 or more courses thick.

Brill knows better too. I am not really sure why he is making this argument.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,918 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
..heh...you should check out Dayton. One of the city commissioners is a big advocate for demolition, and she is getting campaign contributions from demolition contractors. She is running for mayor, too.
Lemme guess....Nan Whaley?
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:33 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,748,743 times
Reputation: 2953
^
bingo
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,918 times
Reputation: 924
Think she can beat Leitzell? (I do, not sure why though.)
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