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Old 02-08-2013, 06:04 PM
 
Location: In a happy place
3,710 posts, read 6,596,906 times
Reputation: 7344

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I believe the point is that there is a lot of subsidizing going on in all areas.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,842,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrtechno View Post
I believe the point is that there is a lot of subsidizing going on in all areas.

^^ Exactly!!
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:30 AM
 
800 posts, read 700,348 times
Reputation: 552
>cars were the more flexible option.

Except cars...
1. require parking spaces in cities, unlike buses or trains. Parking motivated the demolition of thousands of buildings in Cincinnati alone, hundreds of thousands nationwide. Parking garages cost between $25,000-$50,000 per space.
2. use fuel that largely originates in foreign countries. So we mindlessly transfer our wealth to Canada, Mexico, Venezuala, and the Middle East.
3. cars keep the middle class in debt. Car ownership is *much* more expensive than riding the bus or biking or walking.
4. cars make people fat.
5. cars are built by union laborers -- paradoxically Republicans argue the most for a mode of travel that is a hotbed of Democrat union activity.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:14 AM
 
5,658 posts, read 8,787,468 times
Reputation: 2368
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
>cars were the more flexible option.

Except cars...
1. require parking spaces in cities, unlike buses or trains. Parking motivated the demolition of thousands of buildings in Cincinnati alone, hundreds of thousands nationwide. Parking garages cost between $25,000-$50,000 per space.
2. use fuel that largely originates in foreign countries. So we mindlessly transfer our wealth to Canada, Mexico, Venezuala, and the Middle East.
3. cars keep the middle class in debt. Car ownership is *much* more expensive than riding the bus or biking or walking.
4. cars make people fat.
5. cars are built by union laborers -- paradoxically Republicans argue the most for a mode of travel that is a hotbed of Democrat union activity.
Response.

1) Building parking lots and garages generates revenue for cities and private companies. City owned garages take in revenue to help the city budget. Construction jobs are created when a new garage or lot is built. It is up the to the owner of a building or the city in some cases if it is going to demolish a derelict structure or one that has been deemed outdated for modern society.

2) Environmental policies make it impossible to get the oil from our own lands at least those on government owned lands. Canada tried to strike a deal with the Obama administration to send us oil from the Athabasca Tar Sands but DC decided against it. Now that oil is going to China.

3) I'll trade the ability to have freedom of mobility and independence for the sake of a few dollars. Over the years I have paid cash for cars and not had a loan or paid off a loan and kept the car for years after it was paid before replacing it.

4) I see plenty of porkers standing or sitting at Kansas City bus stops.

5) While I am not a fan of most unions they still have a right to exist and it least it keeps American workers employed.

I am fully in favor of having mass transit available to those that do not desire to have a car or cannot drive. I don't even mind some of my tax dollars helping to maintain bus or rail lines either. But I have a genuine problem with the collectivists that are trying to force us out of our cars (those that choose to drive) and onto mass transit.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Over-the-Rhine, Ohio
548 posts, read 611,911 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by WILWRadio View Post
Response.
I am fully in favor of having mass transit available to those that do not desire to have a car or cannot drive. I don't even mind some of my tax dollars helping to maintain bus or rail lines either. But I have a genuine problem with the collectivists that are trying to force us out of our cars (those that choose to drive) and onto mass transit.

No one is trying fo force people out of their cars. We're merely trying to even the subsidies between modes. Automobile infrastucture gets the majority of tax dollars by a long shot. The problem is that the majority of car owners think that losing a couple of parking spaces or a lane fo traffic to transit is an attack on automobile ownership. It's not.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,842,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProkNo5 View Post
No one is trying fo force people out of their cars. We're merely trying to even the subsidies between modes. Automobile infrastucture gets the majority of tax dollars by a long shot. The problem is that the majority of car owners think that losing a couple of parking spaces or a lane fo traffic to transit is an attack on automobile ownership. It's not.
^^ This, exactly this. Even places that excel in public transit have the lions share of auto-mobile traffic.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:27 PM
 
5,324 posts, read 6,646,527 times
Reputation: 2666
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
>cars were the more flexible option.

Except cars...
1. require parking spaces in cities, unlike buses or trains. Parking motivated the demolition of thousands of buildings in Cincinnati alone, hundreds of thousands nationwide. Parking garages cost between $25,000-$50,000 per space.
2. use fuel that largely originates in foreign countries. So we mindlessly transfer our wealth to Canada, Mexico, Venezuala, and the Middle East.
3. cars keep the middle class in debt. Car ownership is *much* more expensive than riding the bus or biking or walking.
4. cars make people fat.
5. cars are built by union laborers -- paradoxically Republicans argue the most for a mode of travel that is a hotbed of Democrat union activity.

1) THOUSANDS of buildings in Cincinnati were demolished? The logistics of that is ridiculous. Were you concerned when buildings were demolished to make the new baseball and football stadiums?

2) The US imports food from foreign countries. Should we close the doors on that?

3) Home ownership keeps the middle class in debt, as do high local, state, and federal taxes.

4) Spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat.

5) Many auto plants are non-union.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:43 AM
 
114 posts, read 172,402 times
Reputation: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by WILWRadio View Post
Response.

1) Building parking lots and garages generates revenue for cities and private companies. City owned garages take in revenue to help the city budget. Construction jobs are created when a new garage or lot is built. It is up the to the owner of a building or the city in some cases if it is going to demolish a derelict structure or one that has been deemed outdated for modern society.
Actually, most parking structures rarely cover their costs so they end up being another thing the city subsidizes for cars. One study of parking garages in the Mid-Atlantic region determined that annual operating revenue per space ranged between 26 and 36 percent of annual cost. I doubt Cincinnati would be doing 3 times better than that such that they would be making a profit and actually generating revenue for the city.

Also, aren't construction jobs created when new public transit is created such as a street car? I don't find construction to be a valid argument for car use when it can also be used to argue for a variety of modes of public transit.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:49 AM
 
114 posts, read 172,402 times
Reputation: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2 View Post

2) The US imports food from foreign countries. Should we close the doors on that?

2. Have you found a replacement for food (oil) that allows everyone to consume less food (oil) yet still stay full (be able to get where they want to go). If so, yes, please close the door on importing food (oil) from foreign countries and we will just use our own food (oil).
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,410,202 times
Reputation: 1920
Much of the food we import is so we can have seasonal foods year around. I personally like having fresh fruits and vegetables in the middle of winter and it helps the countries who export them here. There is also what we do not produce such as bananas, coffee, olives, etc.

Much of the oil situation is strictly politics. Evironmentalists campaign against an oil pipeline from Canada so we can purchase their oil sands product. In my mind, Canada is not a foreign country but a welcomed neighbor. Now Iran and Iraq, they are foreign countries.

The arguments concerning oil will continue to go on until it just plain runs out. When I look back at the history of using oil and realize just how short a period that is and the rate of consumption I have to think we are using up a resource which took millions of years to produce in a flash. But human nature is a rather poor conservator, we want what we want when we want it. So cars and trucks will rule until the oil runs out. Then we will say H*ly Sh*t Now What?

But those promoting electrically propelled transportation. Where is all of that energy to come from - coal fired plants? Virtually everyone says nuclear power plants - not in my back yard! At the same time people put their faith in some sort of blind technology which will save us from the mess. Here's my opinion, if it is not nuclear it is not going to happen. Those wind turbine fields, not only too expensive and inefficient, but when you suck the energy out of the wind what effect does it have on the weather? There is nothing totally free. That wind energy was going to do something and then it is gone. There is a price to pay there somewhere.

Those who want to thrust us back to a lifestyle of a century or more bygone may get their wish, but hopefully not in my lifetime. I remember my grandmother with a side door to her icebox so the iceman could slip in the block of ice, and also the wringer washer (after they got rid of the crub board) which produced clothes so wet they were still dripping when hung on the lines out back. If it was bad weather you hung them in the basement, providing you had one. Otherwise they just sat in baskets breeding mold until it was dry enough to hang outside. I also remember when my Dad and Uncles dug through the front yard and broke through the rock foundation to bring a sewer into the house and eliminate the outhouse. What an achievement of modern technology that was. Then they also dug some more and brought city water into the house to replace the cistern, another miracle of technology.

BTW that house is in Silverton, still standing, and occupied. I am relatively sure the current occupants do not realize the water supply was via a cistern and there was an outhouse in the back yard.

I was born in 1939 and still remember some of those activities so we are not talking all that long ago, long to you maybe but fresh to me.

Then I look back at when OTR was at it zenith population wise. If you evaluate it fairly, it was one big ass slum, equal to those in NYC. Not a damn thing glamorous about it. Those who survived can look back and say Can you believe it, we actually survived that place?

Those who want to glamorize the past thankfully never had to live there.
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