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Old 02-11-2013, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,124 times
Reputation: 924

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Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Clearly you haven't been paying attention jbcmh81. In this thread, we've been enlightened to the fact that it's the extreme outer suburbs and places like Union Centre (or Polaris, in Columbus terms) that are the "future" and where people will want to live and work. The thousands of young people flocking back into cities today, apparently, are living in the past.
I've lost count of the articles I've posted that show shifting trends back to the urban centers all across the country, yet Brill keeps insisting the reverse is happening. Whatever.

I suppose we can chalk it up to he's of the opinion that people are still flocking to suburbia.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:14 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
For brill's reading enjoyment:

Cincinnati’s inner-city neighborhoods most densely populated, economically powerful in region — UrbanCincy
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,358,349 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
I've lost count of the articles I've posted that show shifting trends back to the urban centers all across the country, yet Brill keeps insisting the reverse is happening. Whatever.

I suppose we can chalk it up to he's of the opinion that people are still flocking to suburbia.
Don't need to contend people are flocking to suburbia, they are already there. The shifting trends to urban centers, what is the rate? For instance Cincinnati, at the current trend how long will it take to recover the 1950 population of 503,998? Since it lost 41.2% population since 1950, how much does it need to gain per year to equal the 1950 population in 2050? If it gains 5,000 per year (this is 2013 after all) for the next 38 years or 190000 it still comes up short.

So please stop saying everyone is going back to the urban centers. Some people have made that decision which is their prerogative, no doubt. But a mass exodus I hardly think so. BTW look at the City population increase from 2000 t0 2010 versus the MSA as a whole. I think that is enough said.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,011,892 times
Reputation: 2334
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Nobody, save for one or two hardcore highway lovers on here, wants to spend two hours a day in stop-and-go interstate traffic staring at bumper stickers and break lights.
Nobody wants to spend two hours in stop and go interstate traffic staring at bumper stickers and brake lights, regardless of your persuasion.

It happens because the anti-road shills on this forum and elsewhere fight tooth and nail the minute someone talks about laying down some much-needed pavement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac
People can live in florence, mason, harrison, wherever and converge on downtown. If the office is in Florence, for example, people from mason would take a hard look before taking on that commute. Imagine commuting from Anderson to Harrison every day. So when the company goes to the burbs, they limit the talent pool somewhat.
Hi progmac--

If my office was in Florence, you can be damned sure that I'd live on the NKY side of the river, thus bypassing downtown entirely. Likewise if the office was in Mason, I'd have zero reason to needlessly endure a 60+ minute commute every day.

I guess that brings us back to a form of the chicken or the egg issue - do the jobs follow the houses, or the houses follow the jobs? Certainly Union Centre was built as an alternative to downtown because of ease of access (especially if you already live in the West Chester/Fairfield areas).
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:33 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Nobody wants to spend two hours in stop and go interstate traffic staring at bumper stickers and brake lights, regardless of your persuasion.

It happens because the anti-road shills on this forum and elsewhere fight tooth and nail the minute someone talks about laying down some much-needed pavement.

Completely and absolutely wrong. The interstate asphalt heaven of Atlanta has 8-10 lanes in each direction in places. And that doesn't do diddly-squat to ease congestion there.

It's been proven so many times that additional roads and interstate lanes ADD to congestion, not relieve it, that it's almost cliche.

Is this your dream for here:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/ass...-story-top.jpg
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,011,892 times
Reputation: 2334
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
The interstate asphalt heaven of Atlanta has 8-10 lanes in each direction in places.
Hi abr7rmj--

And guess what 8-10 lanes does for Atlanta? It's growing. The city is doing brilliantly, and so is the metro area.

Need I compare Atlanta to Cincinnati?
1990 - 394,017 (metro 2,959,950)
2000 - 416,474 (metro 4,112,198)
2010 - 420,003 (metro 5,268,860)


And here's Cincinnati:
1990 - 364,040 (metro 1,880,332)
2000 - 331,285 (metro 2,050,175)
2010 - 296,945 (metro 2,172,191)


So, 20 years ago, Cincinnati city proper was of a similar population to Atlanta, anchoring a metro area only somewhat smaller.

Now, Atlanta's metro area is more than double Cincinnati's, and the city proper has held its own since.

Nothing is holding Cincinnati back from succeeding like Atlanta other than the backwards-thinking city council and rabid anti-road types who refuse to move with the times.

The longer Cincinnati waits to upgrade its roads (and especially I-75), the further behind it will fall.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,358,349 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Nobody wants to spend two hours in stop and go interstate traffic staring at bumper stickers and brake lights, regardless of your persuasion.

It happens because the anti-road shills on this forum and elsewhere fight tooth and nail the minute someone talks about laying down some much-needed pavement.




Hi progmac--

If my office was in Florence, you can be damned sure that I'd live on the NKY side of the river, thus bypassing downtown entirely. Likewise if the office was in Mason, I'd have zero reason to needlessly endure a 60+ minute commute every day.

I guess that brings us back to a form of the chicken or the egg issue - do the jobs follow the houses, or the houses follow the jobs? Certainly Union Centre was built as an alternative to downtown because of ease of access (especially if you already live in the West Chester/Fairfield areas).
I feel that is quite evident. The people follow the jobs amd the jobs follow the areas where they can attact the most qualified people.

When my former employer moved from Norwood to Mason, I lucked out completely, ending up less than 1 mile from the new facility. In addition, I got a raise due to a drop in city income tax to less than 50% of what I was paying. Then my auto insurance went down due to the distance to and from work. 1 mile, you can hardly equal that anywhere in the City, and BTW no parking fees. Added to that was the upkeep on the car. My newest car I bought in 2001 and it still has some miles to go to turn 50,000 miles in 2013.

BTW, many people also live and work in Florence, many live and work in Mason, many live and work in West Chester, many live close to and work in Blue Ash, many live in and work in MIlford/Eastgate. I doubt if many people in the suburbs are enduring an extremely long commute except for thoise who work in the downtown district, and even that is far less than 1 hour on the average.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,124 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
And guess what 8-10 lanes does for Atlanta? It's growing. The city is doing brilliantly, and so is the metro area.
And you think roads cause cities to grow?

Atlanta has MARTA.

MARTA - Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority

The following excerpt from a City-Data thread should educate you a little on the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west View Post
Atlanta was founded, and still is a major transportation hub. Given it's central location in the Southeast, tying the Carolinas and the Coast to the states to the west, such as Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana, it has served as an excelellent railroad hub. Given that you can fly from Atlanta to 2/3 of the country, including New York, Chicago, DC, Dallas, Houston, and Miami within 2 hours, it serves an excellent air hub--thus boasting the world's busiest airport.

Since the 1960s, the South has been diversifying its economy and shifting from agriculture and textiles to financial services, real estate, transportation and communications, and tourism. As the "New South" econcomy has risen, cities such as Charlotte, Nashville, and Raleigh have boomed. Since Atlanta is the anchor city of the Southeast, it too has grown as the regional headquarters of many companies hired more employees to meet the growing demand from a rapidly expanding population. As long as the South booms, so does Atlanta.

Another reason that Atlanta has boomed is that it maintained a very moderate and stable atmosphere during the civil rights movement. Not that Atlanta hasn't been without racial tension, but compared to cities such as Birmingham, which rivaled Johannesburg in regards to racial strife, Atlanta moved forward. Thus, blacks have been attracted to the city due to its level of tolerance and the fact that it anchors the South, which is the domestic ancestoral homeland for many African Americans.

Atlanta has also had a very optimistic history. Given the fact that it was burned down during the Civil War and re-emerged, the symbol of the city is the Phoenix rising from the ashes, as depicted on the city's seal. The business community here echoes that enthusiasm and many of the most innovative businessmen in US history have established themselves here, including Ted Turner. That same "can-do" attitude was instrumental in attracting the Olympics here.

The economy here is very diverse, including everything from banking to manufacturing. Atlanta also has one of the strongest job markets in the country. The cheap cost of living, the cheaper costs of operating and managing a business, and the availability of employment has kept the city growing.

The climate here is very agreeable to most people. Although we do get hot and humid summers, they are tempered a little by the fact that we are 1,000 ft. above sea level. Also, the winters here are very pleasant compared to winters in the Northeast and Midwest.

I can go on and on, but those are a few reasons why Atlanta has boomed.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:16 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Hi abr7rmj--

And guess what 8-10 lanes does for Atlanta? It's growing. The city is doing brilliantly, and so is the metro area.

Need I compare Atlanta to Cincinnati?
1990 - 394,017 (metro 2,959,950)
2000 - 416,474 (metro 4,112,198)
2010 - 420,003 (metro 5,268,860)


And here's Cincinnati:
1990 - 364,040 (metro 1,880,332)
2000 - 331,285 (metro 2,050,175)
2010 - 296,945 (metro 2,172,191)


So, 20 years ago, Cincinnati city proper was of a similar population to Atlanta, anchoring a metro area only somewhat smaller.

Now, Atlanta's metro area is more than double Cincinnati's, and the city proper has held its own since.

Nothing is holding Cincinnati back from succeeding like Atlanta other than the backwards-thinking city council and rabid anti-road types who refuse to move with the times.

The longer Cincinnati waits to upgrade its roads (and especially I-75), the further behind it will fall.

OK, I'll play. Let's use Atlanta, which you say is "doing brilliantly," is forward-thinking and should be an example for backward-thinking Cincinnati.

Atlanta has light rail:

MARTA - Schedules & Maps

Atlanta is building a downtown streetcar:

http://www.atlantaga.gov/modules/sho...ocumentid=2620

So which is it? If Cincinnati is backwards-thinking for building a downtown streetcar, how about Atlanta? And, conversely, if Atlanta is forward-thinking for building a downtown streetcar, why isn't Cincinnati?

Since cities like Atlanta, Charlotte, Washington DC, New Orleans, Tampa, Portland, Seattle, Milwaukee, Austin, Minneapolis, Denver, etc., have or are building downtown streetcar systems, that would suggest to me that Cincinnati is, indeed, "moving with the times" as you say.

And is it any coincidence that development along the Cincy streetcar line is absolutely booming, from OTR to The Banks? Just last week, developers announced plans to convert the half-empty 580 Building into new residential space. The 580 Building, fyi, is sandwiched directly between the north and south streetcar rails.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 02-11-2013 at 05:34 PM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,358,349 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
OK, I'll play. Let's use Atlanta, which you imply say is "doing brilliantly," is forward-thinking and should be an example for backward-thinking Cincinnati.

Atlanta has light rail:

MARTA - Schedules & Maps

Atlanta is building a downtown streetcar:

http://www.atlantaga.gov/modules/sho...ocumentid=2620

So which is it? If Cincinnati is backwards-thinking for building a downtown streetcar, how about Atlanta? And, conversely, if Atlanta is forward-thinking for building a downtown streetcar, why isn't Cincinnati?
Very simply, Cincinnati is pulling up the rear. If Cincinnati is right out there marching along with Atlanta please cite example for equal example where they are equal.
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