General Rant on Local Irritating Subjects (Columbus, Cleveland: loans, taxes, garages)

[kjbrill]

Put a rail station in Lebanon and run it to both downtown Dayton and downtown Cincinnati. Now that makes sense. The rail connection opens up a huge amount of land around Lebanon for development.

I just have a few questions.
1) Who is going to pay for it?
2) Where will it be routed, who pays for the right of way?

So many of the proposed rail routes seem to ask for public monies to construct them. What is the source of these public monies? Where is the decision to apply these monies to specific routes made?

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Put a rail station in Lebanon and run it to both downtown Dayton and downtown Cincinnati. Now that makes sense. The rail connection opens up a huge amount of land around Lebanon for development.

I just have a few questions.
1) Who is going to pay for it?
2) Where will it be routed, who pays for the right of way?

So many of the proposed rail routes seem to ask for public monies to construct them. What is the source of these public monies? Where is the decision to apply these monies to specific routes made?

May I ask what's wrong with tax dollars going to benefit the good of the public, and back to the people who were taxed? I think something like this is better than corporate welfare. Not to get off topic.

[Briolat21]

Okay I just have to say this --

given Lebanon's current train issues (they subsidize the silly entertainment railroad, in hopes of bringing people to the shops in town) ..

Let's NOT put any more trains in Lebanon. Not because it wouldn't be functional, but because ultimately I don't trust the town not to mismanage it awfully.

Yes, by the way I'm fine with tax dollars supporting infrastructure (including both roads and rails), however the Lebanon situation where the taxes are supporting a fully private venture - in the hopes that some of the spillover guests will spend money in local shops is just irritating.

That is not taxes supporting infrastructure, it is a subsidy to a private business. Let the L&M leave Lebanon, and if you want more festivals to draw people to town -- plan more festivals!

[Briolat21]

Originally Posted by rrtechno

It is interesting watching the discussion going on here. I am interested, though, in seeing what proposals those of you out there have for a situation like mine.

We currently live in Williams County, a very rural area between Toledo, OH and Ft. Wayne, IN. What options do you see in the future for someone like us wanting to visit our children in Butler County? One of them is currently looking at property in Warren County, so that would involve more logistics to get both places.

Thoughts?

Realistically mass transit is always dependent upon population density.

Your situation will be car-dependent for a long time to come.

Some day perhaps you could drive to a small city center nearby (toledo, or outskirts) and catch a commuter train to Cinci, and then a local train/shuttle to the butler or warren areas.. but that may be 150 years from now when personal hovercars (ala the Jetsons) are just as likely a possibility.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

That's how it is in the NYC Metro as well. A lot of people drive to the nearest Park N' Ride, and take the trains from there.

Brilliant. So then you still have cars on the road and taxpayer-subsidized trains.

How is Amtrak pulling in customers these days? How often do you use Amtrak for travel to other cities?

Take a trip to London, England. Gas is $10 per gallon over there and millions of people still drive cars to work despite the existence of great public transportation. There must be a reason why.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by ram2

Brilliant. So then you still have cars on the road and taxpayer-subsidized trains.

How is Amtrak pulling in customers these days? How often do you use Amtrak for travel to other cities?

Take a trip to London, England. Gas is $10 per gallon over there and millions of people still drive cars to work despite the existence of great public transportation. There must be a reason why.

Bruh...where did Amtrak come into play?

All you COAST, anti-rail types sound the same.

And that, in part, is what is holding Cincinnati back.

[jmecklenborg]

>Brilliant. So then you still have cars on the road and taxpayer-subsidized trains.

Taxpayer subsidized cars on taxpayer subsidized roads. GM was just bailed out and Chrysler's been bailed out twice. Oil is subsidized by the US Navy, which protects shipments of it from overseas to our refineries. You pay for city and county roads through property taxes even if you don't own a car and never buy gasoline.

Every form of transportation is subsidized here in the US.


>How is Amtrak pulling in customers these days? How often do you use Amtrak for travel to other cities?

How often do you ride the space shuttle? If there aren't any, you can't complain about people not riding them. The privately owned railroads can't run them profitably when they're competing against the heavily subsidized cars and highways that parallel them, and the heavily subsidized airlines that fly overhead.

So you're asking why a private business like CSX or Norfolk-Southern doesn't enter into competition with heavily subsidized competitors. Seriously, get a clue.


>Take a trip to London, England. Gas is $10 per gallon over there and millions of people still drive cars to work despite the existence of great public transportation. There must be a reason why.

Those are mostly suburb-to-suburb drives. It's too expensive to park in central London because unlike the US they didn't tear down historic buildings en masse for parking lots and garages.

Keep your challenges coming, I've spent 15 years studying this stuff, you're going to lose every time you argue with me.

[jmecklenborg]

>Put a rail station in Lebanon

Commuter rail has never been proposed to Lebanon because its population is so small.

In the late 90s the OKI I-71 Light Rail Study outlined construction of a light rail line between Florence, KY and Mason, OH, specifically Kings Island. This line would have involved construction of a new bridge over the Ohio River and the digging of a tunnel under Mt. Auburn between Mulberry St. in Over-the-Rhine and Corry St. near UC's new sports bubble.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Hi Briolat21--

I-270 around Columbus has a bunch of cloverleafs. I'm not a fan, the merging area is too short (and leads to enormous traffic backups).







+rep for that post.

Thank you for being with the times. Roads are the way of the future in Cincinnati and many other cities. No mass transit, especially not rail, could even dream of making it from Lebanon to Hyde Park in 28 minutes unless it never stopped along the way.

It really shocks and appalls me how many people cling to outmoded 19th century technology like rail which, while good for transporting freight, doesn't do nearly as good a job at moving passengers given the lower population density.

Southern Ohio - namely, Butler and Warren Counties - are on the move. There's development, there's progress, there's money being made. People are moving there, and it's really on the grow. And it's fueled by (gasp) I-71 and I-75.

Get with it, Cincinnati! Or risk getting left behind.

This is so hilariously misguided and out-of-touch that it's almost like it was written as a joke. Sadly, I doubt it was.

[Crew Chief]

For all of you mass transit enthusiasts, here's the deal: Many of us that that you believe are "Anti-mass transit" really aren't. As I've said before, I truly enjoy mass transit, whether it be on rails or on tires. Tires are a HELUVA lot chaeper and quicker to bring online than rails. But the fact remains; not enough people will use mass transit to make it anywhere close to worthwhile. Yeah, at some point in the furure, SW Ohio may have the density of the Eastern Seaboard. And then mass transit will make more sense. But, for right now, we just DO NOT have the money to invest. And investing ANYTHING will not bring jobs to the area. Might relocate a few jobs & businesses. But that's not fair at all.