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Old 01-17-2013, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Chicago(Northside)
3,719 posts, read 5,860,401 times
Reputation: 1642

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Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
toll bridge
All a toll will do is create more traffic on the other bridge, maybe make a toll on all the bridges so the traffic can be the same on the bridges and while there at it make the 1-75/1-71 bridge widen to more lanes so they dont have to keep widening or making more lanes.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati(Silverton)
1,576 posts, read 2,303,405 times
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I have to say the bridge will be paid for faster by tolling every bridge on the Ohio river. By tolling every bridge the toll should be less. Although im not sure if it's legal to toll bridges that's already been paid for with local and federal money.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,363,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
So this is a messy $2.5 billion solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If you want to see what real traffic looks like, visit New York City. The existing bridge situation wouldn't rank in even the top 10 worst traffic bottlenecks in the NYC region. NYC is investing no money in expanding highways but has several major subway and commuter rail projects underway.

It'is worth mentioning that the total build-out of the 2002 MetroMoves plan -- 50+ miles of light rail in Hamilton County -- was less expensive than this bridge project.
First of all I don't buy the $2.5 Billion number. Seems like if you don't figure in the billions nobody pays any attention. I don't doubt that is what the government planners are saying. In 2005 it was a $1 Billion figure. Now 7 years later it is 2.5 times as much? And we haven't even had a period of high inflation.

As far as MetroMoves, what I remember is the public rejected it, and that was strictly a Hamilton County project.

So are you contending this proposal for the Brent Spence is laid in stone? If so, when does construction begin? Or is it going to be like the streetcar, start building it before the financing is in place, the engineering completed, and the cost established? I understand one is a Cincinnati project and one is not. But the State of Ohio has not demonstrated it is any better at fiscal responsibility than the City of Cincinnati.

If there is a toll put on the bridge I hope it backfires and stifles growth in the region as it will be deserved. Very few interstate locations in the US have a toll. And the ones which do are in sections of the country I don't want to live in. Turnpikes don't count as they were mostly built prior to the interstates. If Ky and Oh can't figure out a way to finance the bridge, do what everyone else does - go to Washington with your hand out. Threaten to cut off I-75 at the Michigan and Tennessee borders or better yet put toll booths there unless the fed come through.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:09 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,750,175 times
Reputation: 2953
They're planning two bridges in Louisvillle, so you should be able to get a comparable cost number from those projects.

I think the toll concept is that is the only way to pay for it, but the traffic would be just as bad because youd have traffic jams at the tollbooths.

@@@

For a comparable project you all should look at the Ohio River Bridges project in Louisville...similar in that they are talking about a second bridge paralleling an existing one for a major interstate crossing, and I believe tolls are also being discussed...
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,363,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
They're planning two bridges in Louisvillle, so you should be able to get a comparable cost number from those projects.

I think the toll concept is that is the only way to pay for it, but the traffic would be just as bad because youd have traffic jams at the tollbooths.

@@@

For a comparable project you all should look at the Ohio River Bridges project in Louisville...similar in that they are talking about a second bridge paralleling an existing one for a major interstate crossing, and I believe tolls are also being discussed...
Of course tolls are being discussed. Most people do not realize KY actually owns and controls the Ohio River to within about 10-12 ft of the Ohio shore. Therefore they are responsible for the bridges. The problem is KY does not have a revenue generator to pay for the bridges.

What I do not understand is why this archaic arrangement has not been set aside long ago between the two states. Draw a line down the middle of the river at high water level and say KY you have this half and OH you have this half (same with Indiana). You are mutually responsible for the maintenance and construction of bridges, etc. Now you two states figure out how to get it done.

Of course KY has three states to deal with, OH, IN, and IL plus I think a sliver of LA. No wonder they may feel frustrated.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,828,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Of course tolls are being discussed. Most people do not realize KY actually owns and controls the Ohio River to within about 10-12 ft of the Ohio shore.
I would have though The Army Corps of Engineers owned it. Learn something new everyday.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:19 PM
 
Location: West Palm Beach
620 posts, read 991,538 times
Reputation: 447
I'm wondering why so many people are worried about the toll booths making things more congested. All it takes is a trip OUTSIDE of Ohio to see that in many places, toll booths aren't even necessary. Get a sticker for your windshield, scan and go. For out of towners, the scanners read the liscence plate and either bill them later or add it onto their reinstatement fee. Glad I never use that bridge anyways.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:26 PM
 
Location: OH
688 posts, read 863,410 times
Reputation: 364
I find it a little ridiculous with $831 billion being spent in Barack's American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (colloquially referred to as "the stimulus" or rather the porkulus bill) that $1 billion couldn't be found for infrastructure as important as a high-traffic bridge linking two states (interestate commerce anyone?) on one of the nation's longest and most traveled interstate highways. Isn't this exactly the type of project the Federal Government created the Federal Highway Administration for?

I'm not saying the Feds should foot the whole bill but to not see a dime in Federal aid while millions or billions of stimulus dollars go to 'green jobs,' Solyndra-type pet projects, welfare, Medicaid, and university research seems like a crock to me.

Is it because KY is a red state and SW Ohio a Republican stronghold? I otherwise struggle to make sense of how the Brent-Spence didn't get targeted as a "shovel-ready" project for Barack's union buddies with so much stimulus dollars being spent elsewhere.


American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PS: let this be a lesson to those of you who fall for the talking points of the big spenders in Washington who say they can't cut spending because it would limit infrastructure, decrease valuable medicinal discoveries, etc. When you factor in defense spending, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and interest on the debt you have about 3/4 of the Federal Budget. In short, with $4 trillion a year in Federal spending if all they spent our tax dollars on was roads and bridges you could literally pave them with $100 bills and have money left over.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:29 PM
 
864 posts, read 1,196,883 times
Reputation: 310
From everything I've seen, toll booths aren't even being discussed as an option. I think they are going to use similar technology to red light cameras, and send a bill in the mail. So there won't be any impact on congestion.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:02 PM
 
800 posts, read 696,704 times
Reputation: 552
Here is the official site which was established in 2005 and has been continuously updated. I'm astonished that we're at the third page of comments and nobody has referenced it:
Brent Spence Bridge


First of all I don't buy the $2.5 Billion number.

There you go again. Google it.


Seems like if you don't figure in the billions nobody pays any attention. I don't doubt that is what the government planners are saying. In 2005 it was a $1 Billion figure. Now 7 years later it is 2.5 times as much? And we haven't even had a period of high inflation.

It's because the project cost includes several miles of approaches. They will be rebuilding the Covington cut-in-the-hill for the third time since it opened in 1963. All of the high ramps on the Cincinnati side will be scrapped and replaced. All of the ramps leading into downtown Cincinnati on I-75 south Ezzard Charles Drive are part of the bridge project.


As far as MetroMoves, what I remember is the public rejected it, and that was strictly a Hamilton County project.

Yes the public rejected it, but explain why there has been no vote on the Brent Spence Bridge project or any road project whatsoever in the Cincinnati area since 1956. It's because the auto industry got state and local policies rigged in such a way that roads NEVER have to be voted on but rail projects almost always MUST be voted on. The only city that has had a transit system built since WWII without a vote is Washington, DC. Every other city has voted. Meanwhile, NO cities had to vote to build the interstates or virtually any road project since the 1950s. The political system is totally rigged in favor of cars and trucking.


So are you contending this proposal for the Brent Spence is laid in stone?

Yes, they have a preferred alternative. To choose anything else would mean backing up in the process and adding years to restudy what has already been studied and approved.


If so, when does construction begin?

It already has -- Duke is rebuilding its electrical substation just west of the bridge. Construction of the bridge and approaches is caught in limbo since ODOT and the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet are totally broke.


Or is it going to be like the streetcar, start building it before the financing is in place, the engineering completed, and the cost established?

That's totally false. The funding mechanisms for the streetcar were completely in place before utility relocation began in early 2012.


I understand one is a Cincinnati project and one is not. But the State of Ohio has not demonstrated it is any better at fiscal responsibility than the City of Cincinnati.

What do you mean, specifically? The bridge project is ODOT's responsibility to fund, not the Ohio legislature or governor's. ODOT officials are not elected by the public. The director of ODOT is appointed by the governor, that is how we ended up with Jerry Wray. They always put some goon from the industry in there. It's the fox guarding the henhouse.

Very few interstate locations in the US have a toll.


Actually many do, just not in the midwest. Any piece of infrastructure that predates the interstate system that was incorporated into it can and is often tolled. Several NYC bridges & tunnels, all of which predate the system. But some items that have been built since are tolled, like the I-95 Ft. McHenry tunnel in Baltimore.

Fort McHenry Tunnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If Ky and Oh can't figure out a way to finance the bridge, do what everyone else does - go to Washington with your hand out.

Not possible in the Tea Party era. Until Republicans are knocked out of the House, there will be no earmarks.

Threaten to cut off I-75 at the Michigan and Tennessee borders or better yet put toll booths there unless the fed come through.

Can't do it. Several states have attempted to apply tolls to established interstate highways and it's been rejected over and over again. Pennsylvania has been denied three attempts to toll I-80.
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