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Old 01-23-2013, 06:25 AM
 
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I just have not read or heard enough about how they plan to route existing traffic away from this project. Are they going to shut down the existing bridge for years while they build the new one? Will it impact the 5th street exit in Covington and lead that to be closed? Or could they route thousands of cars through city streets of Covington which will discourage patrons of area businesses from using the goods and services provided by Covington's business districts? I find it hard to believe nobody in the business community either in Cincinnati or NKY has bothered to study the impact on the volume of traffic on city streets or businesses near the proposed bridge yet.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:56 AM
 
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Just had an idea that may not have been brought up concerning this subject. A tunnel similar to the Big Dig in Boston but on a smaller scale. Has anyone thought to keep the existing bridge and use it for just the north or southbound traffic and then build a tunnel across the river for the traffic going in the other direction? This would definitely have much less of an impact on the surrounding environment and businesses or homes and the economy in general than a new bridge.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILWRadio View Post
Just had an idea that may not have been brought up concerning this subject. A tunnel similar to the Big Dig in Boston but on a smaller scale. Has anyone thought to keep the existing bridge and use it for just the north or southbound traffic and then build a tunnel across the river for the traffic going in the other direction? This would definitely have much less of an impact on the surrounding environment and businesses or homes and the economy in general than a new bridge.
Hi WILWRadio--

A Brent Spence tunnel was considered some years ago I think but it was ruled out as far too expensive - remember the Big Dog in Boston cost some $25 billion before it was completed. Plus, it would make a 5th street entrance from Covington almost impossible (as well as play ham with the ramps leading from Fort Washington Way).

I'm still a fan of building a new bridge alongside the current Brent Spence, although it will most certainly mean the demolition of the B&O building on the Cincinnati side and several blocks on the Covington side including that hotel (I'm forgetting what its name is?). It would have to be at least five, maybe six lanes wide in each direction to handle the traffic, though.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:45 AM
 
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The existing bridge is going to stay open while the new bridge is built immediately beside it. I imagine that there will be between 10-15 feet between the two bridges. They will be completely independent structures. The piers will be offset so the new span will actually be longer. This allows them to build the new piers without disturbing the old ones.

When the new bridge is completed, all traffic will be briefly routed onto it while the old bridge is closed and its decks rebuilt. After the old bridge is refurbished, which will probably take about a year, it will be restriped for six lanes like how it was originally and a final ramp and lane configuration will be established and we'll live happily ever after.

As for a tunnel, yes that was proposed, but tunnels generally max out at 2 lanes per tube, or likely 4 total lanes crossing beneath the river. The new bridge meanwhile is going to be 10 lanes.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:49 AM
 
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>the Big Dog in Boston cost some $25 billion


Jesus Christ the cost estimate for the Ohio River tunnel was $1.5 bilion. Why is it that as soon as people hear the word "tunnel" they immedately get an emotional swell and defer to the Big Dig project, which as I have explained already consisted of much more than simply the mile tunnel under DT Boston. There were miles of other tunnels including an underwater tunnel to Logan Airport that were part of the Big Dig project. It was basically 4 or 5 major pojects underway at the same time that could have been done independently of one another, like if Cincinnati was doing the Brent Spence Bridge, FWW, and some other huge highway project all at the same time.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
When the new bridge is completed, all traffic will be briefly routed onto it while the old bridge is closed and its decks rebuilt. After the old bridge is refurbished, which will probably take about a year, it will be restriped for six lanes like how it was originally and a final ramp and lane configuration will be established and we'll live happily ever after.

As for a tunnel, yes that was proposed, but tunnels generally max out at 2 lanes per tube, or likely 4 total lanes crossing beneath the river. The new bridge meanwhile is going to be 10 lanes.
Hi jmecklenborg--

Do you have a link to this proposed design? I'm curious to see how they will handle the merging traffic from the "old" and "new" Brent Spence Bridges on the Kentucky side of the river, since something like eight lanes would compress into four within the space of a mile.

Although I think adding another northbound lane inside of I-275 on the Kentucky side is an absolute necessity (I remember in high school it backing up as far as Kyles Lane, then Dixie, then Buttermilk, then 275, then Erlanger successively as the years went on and traffic got worse), I do wonder if it's feasible to add much more than one lane without significant rock cuts into the side of the cut in the hill? Is it even possible to have more than four southbound lanes after the bridges?
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:55 AM
 
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The final price tag for the Bawston tunnel was around 15 billion. Only 7 times over budget!
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
Jesus Christ the cost estimate for the Ohio River tunnel was $1.5 bilion. Why is it that as soon as people hear the word "tunnel" they immedately get an emotional swell and defer to the Big Dig project...
Hi jmecklenborg--

And can you honestly name some infrastructure projects (or most any government projects for that matter) that finish on-time and on-budget? The Interstates when proposed in the late 50's would cost $25 billion and take 12 years. It took more like $400 billion and 35 years. The streetcar was supposed to be done by now and cost some $100 million, but now they're talking about delays and cost overruns (I'm hearing $150 million now?). I expect its cost to rise further, perhaps over $200 million before it's complete.

Fact of the matter is, almost nothing finishes on time or on budget. I wouldn't be surprised if a "Brent Spence Tunnel" wound up costing more in the $6-10 billion range.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:59 AM
 
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>since something like eight lanes would compress into four within the space of a mile.

They are going to add a lane to the hill in both directions all the way to Kyle's Lane.


>The final price tag for the Bawston tunnel was around 15 billion. Only 7 times over budget!

Funny how we never hear about government projects that are under budget, like Fort Washington Way.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:05 AM
 
800 posts, read 697,412 times
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We can just look around Cincinnati for all kinds of recent on-budget projects:

-Convention Center Expansion
-Great American Ballpark
-Fountain Square rebuild
-Washington Park garage
-Waldvogel Viaduct

Again, the media and politicians use cost overruns as an excuse to self-congratulate themselves. We rarely hear exactly why there were overruns.

COAST, Tom Luken, talk radio, etc. have thrown so much mud at the streetcar project I can't blame the public for being confused. The capital and operations costs have never changed significantly since the project was first studied in late '06 early '07. It is absolutely not over budget, no matter what those people say. Yes, it is delayed, entirely because of them putting two bs charter amendments on the ballot which delayed it all by two years. Then the Duke thing, which again is artificial, has delayed it by another.

The delays are artificial -- created entirely by obstructionists -- not by mismanagement of the project by those who are tasked with managing it. These guys are so good at confusing people that they have the media confused and therefore the public is confused.
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