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Old 01-23-2013, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,383,973 times
Reputation: 1920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Well, Brill, there is a strong demographic of yuppies (that businesses desperately need) that do not want to commute to some bedroom community. Cincinnati is getting with the times by building a strong urban core, packed with housing and amenities because there is a very strong nationwide market for just that. The businesses that helped fund 3CDC obviously recognize this, since they are the ones who will hire those yuppies living in residential condos.

Which is better, a glut of office space? Or turning unused office space into residential units? You have a good business head, you tell me.
If there is a glut of office space, that is the poor decisions of those who decided to either build them or buy them. I thought the new Dunnhumby building was originally announced to have residential on the upper floors. As I understand it they have now come back and said it will be all commercial. If there is a glut of office space then why will they build the towers at the Banks Phase II development? Very simple, because that is what developers do. If they do not develop they have no business.

Yes, some of the older buildings need to be remodeled to provide what is typically called Class A office space. But quite frankly I have never even seen a description of what is Class B, Class C, etc. office space. Is that because no one will ever admit to leasing such?
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:15 PM
 
307 posts, read 441,558 times
Reputation: 98
The ratings are somewhat arbitrary and vary per market. Think of it as above average rents, average and below average. It seems most buildings going residential are class c office as the conversion to residential is easier and more logical than trying to get to class a office. Its a bit of a natural progression in the life cycle of downtown structures and it seems that the demand for apts outweighs the demand for class c office.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,834,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
If there is a glut of office space, that is the poor decisions of those who decided to either build them or buy them.
Then come on down and straighten them out. ROFL!
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,834,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeytraveler View Post
Its a bit of a natural progression in the life cycle of downtown structures and it seems that the demand for apts outweighs the demand for class c office.
Not to mention the cost it takes to take outdated class C into modern class A. There are a lot of tech upgrades that outweigh the cost of turning them residential. Especially, in light of the demand there is for downtown residential at the moment.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:27 PM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
1,086 posts, read 2,225,467 times
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What is marketed (honestly) as Class A office space is usually sparkling, new, well decorated, no blemishes whatsoever, an attractive front desk receptionist, nicely carpeted lobby, well maintained, modern bathrooms, well maintained common services areas like coffee/break rooms, conference rooms with projectors. Probably fiber or cable internet - capable facilities.

Class C is like those warehouses on Western Row Road that have offices that come up for rent every so often. I know because I've looked at plenty around there. Dingy, drafty, cracked parking lot, dying/dead landscaping and shrubbery, water stains on ceiling tiles, few other renters, some offices being used for storage, etc.

If the Walking Dead could plausibly use an office park for a set for filming, then it's class C or below.

Mason and West Chester indeed have a glut of crappy class C office space at exorbitant rents. I've looked at my share of $400+/mo offices where you had to walk through someone else's dingy reception area to get to your own office, and the idiots act like they're giving you a fantastic deal.

Ah, years ago I looked at "offices" at the Peters Plant. That was indeed Walking Dead territory.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,383,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohioan58 View Post
Mason and West Chester indeed have a glut of crappy class C office space at exorbitant rents.

Ah, years ago I looked at "offices" at the Peters Plant. That was indeed Walking Dead territory.
Please enumerate just how much vacant office/space and or warehouse space is sitting empty in West Chester/Mason. There is always a number of strip center speculators who go belly up. But you are relating to what?
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:49 PM
 
69 posts, read 116,023 times
Reputation: 90
Interesting thoughts. ps I did read the development thread earlier, and I thought it was very impressive.

Here's my perspective on things. I was born and raised in Memphis went away for college and came back for medical school. The common theme in medical school was that Memphis was not so bad, but all of us wanted to leave as soon as possible, and I think this is one major thing that holds Memphis back is that the young educated workforce, once they left Memphis, never came back.

In addition, it's geography is somewhat unfortunate in that it sits in the corner of two of what some would consider the least desirable states in the country (although I'm sure they have plenty of defenders).

Also, while memphis has a stable economy with fed ex, international paper, auto zone, service master (think terminix). None of these companies would be considered as magnets for top level national talent.

Finally, memphis lacks a strong unversity that can recruit talent beyond a regional level.

Regarding detroit, I had a similar feeling that all the native top talent would leave detroit as soon as they could. Detroit metro does have university of michigan, which does help the metro area, but it is a little far away. Within detroit, there is wayne state, which is a fine institution, but it's probably a notch above university of Memphis and not at the level of university of cincinnati.

Detroit is a fine city with nice suburbs, and I made and still have several friends there. I lived in mid town, and crime was never an issue for me. The vast abandonment of the city is real; however, and I got the feeling that local were resigned to the fact that detroit would forever be in a state of revitalization.

Regarding Boston and Chicago, both different cities, but are similar in that they are mature cities with stable populations; however, they are able to recruit top level talent year in and year out. with such a high concentration of talented people, the energy is palpable and infectious.

The problem with these cities is that they get expensive and impractical once you start having kids. So what people do is they either move an hour outside the city center, thinking they can come to the city whenever they can, or they move to smaller "hot" cities hoping recreate some of the experience they had in these larger cities.

Atlanta receives a whole lot of new york transplants, which may be a bad thing, but atlanta now has become a national magnet itself for world class talent

Looking around it seemed that Cincinnati has a lot going for it when compared to other cities of similar size. The city is scenic with moderate temperature (may actually be a bonus as more and more people get fed up with humidity). The city has an excellent economic foundation and less than 2 hours to 3 cities of over a million and another 2 cities > 500K.

The biggest knocks on the city I have read were its conservative nature, which I am curious about because it does not seem to affect the growth charlotte, nashville, indianopolis, or san antonio. The other possible knock may be its relative overreliance on manufacturing.

just wondering if these knocks are fair relative to other similar cities, and if they felt that energy or buzz in the city.

thanks guys for the thoughts.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,736,066 times
Reputation: 2058
Cincinnati is my many accounts the most successful Ohio city. Wildly so if you just look at the private sectors.

OTR is, even to natives, a different place than it was even 18 months ago, nevermind 10 years ago. Downtown seems to be going strong. The banks was a hole in the ground for 10 years and then filled up to 100% occupancy seemingly overnight.

Some city neighborhoods are just insanely successful - hyde park area and mt adams come to mind. Others are way different than they were 10 years ago - northside and oakley come to mind.

Some outer city neighborhoods (think bungalow type areas) are declining and have very uncertain futures. Westwood, west price hill, and college hill come to mind. But even in their 'declining' state, they are relatively stable.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
31,227 posts, read 57,405,335 times
Reputation: 52096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
I think all the redevelopment in the urban core bodes well. What remains to be seen is what if anything is done to arrest the decay of many of the older areas surrounding the core.
Agreed. Each of the city's neighborhoods is as important as the next, although we all know that is a fantasy not shared by TPTB. It would be nice to see the city -- and the nut-twisters who run it -- ponying up to make that fantasy a reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Not to mention the cost it takes to take outdated class C into modern class A. There are a lot of tech upgrades that outweigh the cost of turning them residential. Especially, in light of the demand there is for downtown residential at the moment.
It's all about balance. If there is a shortage of office space downtown, especially office space available at lower rents (not every business is Barnes Dennig or Graydon, Head and Ritchey), then those businesses relocate to more affordable digs elsewhere. That in turn reduces the demand for residential units. And the beat goes on ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohioan58 View Post
Ah, years ago I looked at "offices" at the Peters Plant. That was indeed Walking Dead territory.
Oh, how cool!

Quote:
Originally Posted by det2011sb View Post
Looking around it seemed that Cincinnati has a lot going for it when compared to other cities of similar size.
That's how I've always thought of Cincinnati as well. The conservatism was jarring at first, but you get used to it. Heck, it even made me more open-minded in rebellion, LOL.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:29 PM
 
874 posts, read 1,031,133 times
Reputation: 695
I thought that the only part of the Cincinnati area that was in decline was the area around Evendale. It seems that basements are getting flooded more often and that the higher cost in pumping out the water is causing both companies and people to move out. Everywhere else seems to be doing well.
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