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Old 01-24-2013, 06:25 AM
 
196 posts, read 181,026 times
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I think things are turning around a little bit. Could be better but could be worse.

This was many years ago, but I remember being stunned when a newcomer from Charlotte was talking about how ultra-conservative Cincinnati is. Thought it must be pretty bad if someone from Charlotte, of all places, is saying that!

I don't have any easy answer about why other conservative places (Charlotte, Indy, Salt Lake City) appear to thrive more than Cincy. I do believe that Cincy's relative lack of openness to outsiders & to outside points of view are a big factor, though. Maybe some of the other more "conservative" places are a little more open in that regard.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,389 posts, read 3,722,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by det2011sb View Post
...do you think these statistics capture cincinnati's competitiveness with similar cities ( Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). it sounds like the consensus is that the stats may either be lagging from the reality or just inaccurate...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
First of all I see nothing in these statistics indicating Cincinnati is lagging behind. Second of all, single year statistics can be quite misleading. Cincinnati's long term trends have been very good, particularly in a period of economic distress. The vibrancy of the downtown core has definitely increased, both residential and commercial. Cincinnati is doing just fine thank you.
Time and time again, "the stats" are cherry-picked to fit personal agendas. For example, critics often complain that Cincy (the MSA) is too large or that Cincy (the city proper) is too small, but many of them (unintentionally or intentionally) fail to credit the metro for what it really is--a hybrid known as Cin-Day, a metropolitan region stretching from Walton, Ky. to Tipp City, Oh. and (for what it's worth) encompassing Dayton and Springfield. Most certainly, Cleveland (with the inclusion of all of NEO) can claim the bragging rights of being the largest metro region in Ohio, but no matter. "Cin-Day" encompasses app. 3,200,000 people, placing it well above numerous Wiki MSA's listed above it. It won't be long before this emerging region receives the recognition it deserves.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:48 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,777,872 times
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^
This merger of of metro areas is really only happening along I-75 in Warren & Butler counties. Tell someone from Tipp they are part of a Cincinnati metro area and they will look at you funny.

To be brutally frank those who make these "woo-hoo look at the big Cin-Day metro area" statements really could care less about anyting beyond Hamilton County....Dayton and Springfield and Middletown only exist to pump up the numbers.

Last edited by Dayton Sux; 01-24-2013 at 07:20 AM..
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,750,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Hi progmac--

I haven't even set foot or driven around in OTR since about the beginning of 2009, almost four years - and in any case I left the Cincinnati area altogether about 18 months ago. At some point, I'll have to take a drive around again and see for myself - if even one tenth of what the posters here praise about OTR has come true, then I'll be amazed and actually believe that there is some redevelopment, not just the re-re-re attempts of past years.

Of course, as you mention in your post, this is probably being done at the expense of many outlying neighborhoods in Cincinnati (and probably is responsible for the 10+% population loss since the last Census).
Just park under washington park and check things out. Driving around will just be stressful (tight streets, not much on-street parking)

Regarding your second point, i have thought about that and I don't think it is true. The kind of thing being created in OTR isn't really competing with College Hill. It is competing with other cities, cities that aren't here. I think Westwood and college hill are continuing to be on the losing end of the general suburban flight that has been going on since the 60s. That is to say, someone doesn't say, "I was going to move to westwood but then I saw OTR so I'll move there." Instead someone says, "I was trying to figure out which City to move to and OTR sold me on Cincinnati" OR "I was going to move to westwood, but I can get a newer house in Green Twp where the schools are better and crime is lower for less money"

That is to say, different neighborhoods need to understand their competition. I think places like Westwood can position themself as I think places like Oakley and Pleasant Ridge have -- that is, "it isn't Urban with a capital U, but it isn't suburban either. It is half-way and the commutes are short and roots run deep." Personally, I find the OTR population a little young and transient. But that is the whole point. I feel the EXACT same way about the urban coastal cities and the new west. The populations are too transient....I'd be curious to hear Goygoy's thoughts on this as someone who has lived in Boston for multiple decades. Something i LOVE about Cincinnati is that roots are deep but people are also welcoming of newcomers and will legitimately welcome them into the fold. This is a rare combination.

Anyhow, back to Hensleya's point about OTR success coming at the expense of outlying neighborhoods. I'm just not sure. It is a pretty complex dynamic and how you see it may just depend on if you're a glass-half-full kind of person or not. We do see that the demand for urban living with a perception of safety is nearly infinite. So anytime that type of place can be created, demand will be very robust.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
477 posts, read 531,643 times
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This merger of of metro areas is really only happening along I-75 in Warren & Butler counties. Tell someone from Tipp they are part of a Cincinnati metro area and they will look at you funny.
I agree that the two MSAs should be merged, but I'll also agree with "Dayton Sux" that culturally there is a huge difference between the two and that both are distinct economic units with both having some influence over each other (Cincy more so than Dayton - skyline chilis and greaters in Dayton, with only Marions starting to dip into Cincinnati territory as an example).

I'll also note that Dayton is way more interested in promoting Cin-Day as they will benefit a lot more. Heck it would open up a ton of things to the region being as big as Seattle-Tacoma, things like some guy in Hollywood saying oh, this is a bigger movie market, that independent art film we are only going to show in large markets will be shown in the Cincinnati-Dayton area. It would also attract more attention on a national scale (Oh my devleopment firm will invest here as its a large market, or oh my firm who is wanting to try something new and wants a large market that isn't something as glamorous as say Chicago will try their new product out in Cin-Day etc etc.)

It also would help for federal funding of things like transportation. I'm kind of baffled that there isn't at least infrequent transport up and down 75 - I mean there is a good market for people wanting to get from Cincinnati to the Dayton airport due to CVG being obscenely expensive. Might even be a good private business opportunity.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,389 posts, read 3,722,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
^
This merger of of metro areas is really only happening along I-75 in Warren & Butler counties. Tell someone from Tipp they are part of a Cincinnati metro area and they will look at you funny...
Sorry, but whether they either know or accept it, "Tippsters" are a part of Cin-Day. Their own unawareness (ignorance?) doesn't change what's emerging up and down I-75 within this thriving metro region .
Quote:
To be brutally frank those who make these "woo-hoo look at the big Cin-Day metro area" statements really could care less about anyting beyond Hamilton County....Dayton and Springfield and Middletown only exist to pump up the numbers.
To be also brutally frank, your own comments suggest that you might not much care what happens within Hamilton County or north of it; a number of your posts demonstrate deep resentment to both Cincinnati and Cin-Day.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,028,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman View Post
Sorry, but whether they either know or accept it, "Tippsters" are a part of Cin-Day. Their own unawareness (ignorance?) doesn't change what's emerging up and down I-75 within this thriving metro region .
Hi motorman--

Grew up in Cincinnati, attending Dayton for school, and in working with a few colleagues we'll likely be setting up our practice right in the middle. I just finished a market research report that concluded the best and fastest growing areas within the next 10 years will be Liberty Township, Monroe, and north of Mason. All of those are roughly equidistant between Cincinnati and Dayton (exits 24, 25, and 29 on I-75) - and with the new growth at Austin Landing (exit 41) and Springboro (exit 38), it'll only be as little as 10-15 years before the area is completely filled.

That development means progress, making money, and I intend to catch that rising tide.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,750,269 times
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Originally Posted by natininja View Post
My prediction is that a tipping point is looming where people will begin to realize the cost of living in the big (expensive) coastal cities is not made up for in the amenities provided. People will realize they've been overlooking legitimate options which they'd long dismissed out-of-hand for no reason other than everyone they know having done the same. The Midwest has a lot of gems to be discovered, and Cincinnati in particular will charm the pants off those wandering eyes..
This is some pretty serious wishful thinking.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,750,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Hi motorman--

Grew up in Cincinnati, attending Dayton for school, and in working with a few colleagues we'll likely be setting up our practice right in the middle. I just finished a market research report that concluded the best and fastest growing areas within the next 10 years will be Liberty Township, Monroe, and north of Mason. All of those are roughly equidistant between Cincinnati and Dayton (exits 24, 25, and 29 on I-75) - and with the new growth at Austin Landing (exit 41) and Springboro (exit 38), it'll only be as little as 10-15 years before the area is completely filled.

That development means progress, making money, and I intend to catch that rising tide.
Development does mean progress, but we shouldn't confuse growth with development. In Ohio we don't have the underlying population growth trends to equate growth with development. People aren't moving to the region to live at the Austin pike exit. They are just leaving some older suburb. Today's booming Austin pike road, unless exceptionally managed, is tomorrow's abandoned suburb.

Of course, there is always money to be made with sprawl. Money is sprawl's raison d'etre.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,844,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
This is some pretty serious wishful thinking.
Not really. You checked into housing prices in NYC, Boston, San Fran, etc., lately?

Philly is expensive compared to Cincy, but cheap compared to the cities I mentioned.

Cincinnati charmed me quite well. In my third year at the moment and am planning on staying put.
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