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Old 02-08-2013, 02:03 PM
 
3,751 posts, read 10,242,895 times
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Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
Actually Dayton suburbia extends more along a north-south axis. There is an entire "empty quater" west of the city, and Greene County is only recently developing a big way.

I don't really want to put-down Cincy suburbia. The older towns are really neat (thlinking Wyoming and Norwood and Glendale) as well as the older parts of the new suburbs (like Mason or Sharonville). And there are those two model communities on how to 'do suburbia' (at least in terms of site planning and greenspace): Greenhills and Mariemont

It's just the stuff in-between (cue mental image of, say, Colerain Rd by that shopping mall, SR 4 to Hamilton, Red Bank Highway, that road north of Sharonville into Westchester, etc) that is so visually chaotic and scruffy.

I think its because Cincy is so big. Dayton has stretches like that to on certain highways (north Dixie Drive would be the best worst example, and parts of Salem Ave), but since its a smaller city with smaller suburbs these stretches go by fast.

I also think the civil engineerrs doing traffic planning are pretty agressive in doing access control and limiting curb cuts (in fact I was told this by a guy working planning for that OKI regional planning agency) and sign controls and such, so the way things where developed starting in the 1970s and maybe even in the late 1960s (with the advent of the PUD concept) means there was less laissez faire and more planning and control on how things were built-out....in suburbia. Its still suburbia, but maybe more thought-out....
I agree - that vision of suburbia (Hamilton Ave thru Colerain/Mt Airy), RT 4 through Fairfield/Hamilton is not exactly aesthetically pleasing.

But - that was very typical of suburbs 50 years ago. Most of what I knew in the Detroit suburbs (Gratiot Ave, Groesbeck Hwy, are just like that) -- long essentially highways that are built up with strip malls, with residential areas hidden somewhere behind.

Now, newer communities are trying to minimize that, or have landscaping/planning standards.

But I would imagine in the heyday of the automobile i.e. the '50s (not to conflate threads) - long stretches of straight roads, full of fancy shopping opportunities (dime stores, and malt shops) must have looked pretty wonderful.

Who knew it would age so poorly.
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:07 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
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Quote:
Though WestChester is quite small, even compared to Old Mason.
One can almost do a typology of suburbia or of these country villages.

Westcheser= "stringtown"...really just one street wide, or a collection of houses along one street ("Jericho" on the way to Monroe is the same)

Mason = "village"...more of a proper main street and side streets.

Miamisburg = "small town"....maybe some historic industry, more side streets forming little neighborhoods.

...and all these places had an existence in history that were not really suburban as we understand the concept.
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
Miamisburg = "small town"....maybe some historic industry, more side streets forming little neighborhoods.
Miamisburg is very charming downtown.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
688 posts, read 736,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unusualfire View Post
The state knows the 2 are merging. It was one reason I-75 was widened to 8 lanes between the two metro's. They know development will accelerate between the two.
That's what I gathered. While both Montgomery and Hamilton counties have been steady or declined in population, Butler and Warren have been steadily growing at 10-15% and 35-40% per decade respectively. Each of the latter counties have plenty of residents who commute to both Cincinnati and Dayton.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unusualfire View Post
The state knows the 2 are merging. It was one reason I-75 was widened to 8 lanes between the two metro's. They know development will accelerate between the two.
I speculated when Clark County was dropped from Dayton's metro a few years ago, that it was a pre-emptive move for an eventual CIn-Day merger.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
I speculated when Clark County was dropped from Dayton's metro a few years ago, that it was a pre-emptive move for an eventual CIn-Day merger.
But Springfield is still part of the Dayton CSA, so if Daytonnati happens at some point, Springfield will probably be part of it. The only thing that would keep this from happening is if more of Springfield/Clark County residents started to work in Franklin County than in Montgomery County, causing Springfield to become part of the Columbus CSA (the 2 cities are only 45 miles apart). But it could be decades before this happens, if it happens at all. In the near-term, if the CinDay CSA merger happens, Springfield will be part of it.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:05 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,663,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pontiac51 View Post
But Springfield is still part of the Dayton CSA, so if Daytonnati happens at some point, Springfield will probably be part of it. The only thing that would keep this from happening is if more of Springfield/Clark County residents started to work in Franklin County than in Montgomery County, causing Springfield to become part of the Columbus CSA (the 2 cities are only 45 miles apart). But it could be decades before this happens, if it happens at all. In the near-term, if the CinDay CSA merger happens, Springfield will be part of it.
There is so much emptiness between Springfield and Columbus though. Absolutely zero in the way of development and, likely, little chance of it any time soon.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:36 AM
 
291 posts, read 297,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
There is so much emptiness between Springfield and Columbus though. Absolutely zero in the way of development and, likely, little chance of it any time soon.
MSAs/CSAs have more to do with commuting patterns than development. For example, Chillicothe is part of the Columbus CSA. The two cities are 47 miles apart. How much development is there between these two cities? It's about the same amount there is between Columbus and Springfield.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,840,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pontiac51 View Post
But Springfield is still part of the Dayton CSA, so if Daytonnati happens at some point, Springfield will probably be part of it. The only thing that would keep this from happening is if more of Springfield/Clark County residents started to work in Franklin County than in Montgomery County, causing Springfield to become part of the Columbus CSA (the 2 cities are only 45 miles apart). But it could be decades before this happens, if it happens at all. In the near-term, if the CinDay CSA merger happens, Springfield will be part of it.
Springfield would likely be part of the possible Cin-Day CSA, but probably not the Cin-Day MSA.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati(Silverton)
1,578 posts, read 2,309,359 times
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Merging of urbanized area's is another way the two will join as an MSA/CSA. They were already set to merge in 2010.

https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...010-census#t-2

But they didn't allow it to happen this review period by putting an all out ban on no urban area's could merge unless they were losing urban status. Mainly do to the Philadelphia-NYC merger. Philadelphia would fight tooth and nail before that ever happens.
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