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Old 03-07-2013, 06:09 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,032,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briolat21 View Post

So when the city-booster posters here on occasion seem to have a similar level of paranoia, well, it makes me nervous. Because an "us" vs. "them" philosophy is not how you grow a region. And Cincinnati is part of a larger region, it is not a somehow magically isolated land within the city limits.
Lest I be branded as a paranoid "urbanist", let me just say that my earlier post was not to promote city dwelling over the 'burbs, so much as people should live where they are most comfortable, but do it for the right reasons. Just be honest and say "I prefer living at the end of a cul de sac in West Chester in spite of the traffic and commute times." I can respect that. Just like city-dwelling parents may say "I like living in the city in spite of the fact it is more challenging for me to find the right schooling options for my child."
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,845,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
"I like living in the city in spite of the fact it is more challenging for me to find the right schooling options for my child."
I actually like the many options to choose from within CPS. Some may like the simplicity of just having one school to choose from, nothing wrong with that.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,751,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natininja View Post
^^^ and ^^^^

You both ignore the fact that the more suburban neighborhoods of the city are at a structural disadvantage when pitted against outside municipalities. Along with the city comes legacy costs which suburbs are buffered from by municipal lines. If Wyoming or Glendale annexed Lincoln Heights and Lockland, the glorious governments which run those wealthy municipalities would suddenly become "ineffective". They'd have intractable problems on their hands, and no government of any political ideology would be able to just solve things.

By focusing extra attention on the city center, the city is enhancing its assets which the suburbs cannot compete with; the assets that give the city a structural advantage; the assets which yield the highest return on investment. To say the city is ignoring other neighborhoods is also not accurate (e.g. look at the city's streetscape program, and attempts to stem the foreclosure crisis), but throwing a ton of money at neighborhoods which contemporary housing trends put at a structural disadvantage when competing with the suburbs is a lot like throwing tons of money at inner-city schools and expecting it to fix things, which should be language you suburbanites understand.

You have to invest where your money will have the greatest impact, and that's what the city is trying to do. I will not say everything they do is perfect, but when you look at the way apartments and condos are being gobbled up in the city center faster than they are coming online, and you see the center of the city springing to life in a way it hasn't been in decades, you have to recognize the successes of this strategy. You can't build a 300+ unit apartment complex in Westwood or College Hill and expect it to draw a bunch of professionals who will help the economic situation in the city, which by the way helps the entire city and not just the area the apartment building is built.
brilliant post
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:41 PM
 
50 posts, read 65,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natininja View Post
One thing to keep in mind is that population is not everything.
Yup. All I know is this city is dramatically different, for the better, than when I came here 5 years ago. And not just downtown. I'd say it has it together.

And for the record: not to dismiss the current suburban population growth, but how much greater would that growth be if it was coupled with city population growth? Which, call me optomistic, but I think will happen sooner rather than later: 1) recent estimates indicate population is stabilizing (yes, they are estimates, but they are done in a systematic, valid way - about as accurate as you're going to get), and 2) due to the sheer fact of how much downtown/OTR has improved, the growth at uptown institutions like UC and CCHMC, new small businesses popping up, etc.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,029,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kg97 View Post
And for the record: not to dismiss the current suburban population growth, but how much greater would that growth be if it was coupled with city population growth? Which, call me optomistic, but I think will happen sooner rather than later: 1) recent estimates indicate population is stabilizing (yes, they are estimates, but they are done in a systematic, valid way - about as accurate as you're going to get), and 2) due to the sheer fact of how much downtown/OTR has improved, the growth at uptown institutions like UC and CCHMC, new small businesses popping up, etc.
Hi kg97--

Well, allow me to take some liberties and calculate a hypothetical for you, using 1990 as a base line.

Here's the actual 1990, 2000, and 2010 US Census data:

Quote:
Cincinnati
1990 364,040 (-5.6%)
2000 331,285 (-9.0%)
2010 296,945 (-10.4%)

Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, metro area
1990 1,880,332
2000 2,050,175 (+9.0%)
2010 2,172,931 (+6.0%)
If you were to reverse Cincinnati's demographic trends from 1990 onwards - that is to say, if Cincinnati's population actually grew by an amount equal to what Cincinnati has actually lost, you get the following:

Quote:
Cincinnati
1990
364,040
2000 396,795 (+8.9%)
2010 431,135 (+8.7%)

Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, metro area
1990 1,880,332
2000 2,115,685 (+12.5%)
2010 2,307,121 (+9.0%)
Cincinnati's metro area would be ranked #24 rather than #28 - ironically enough displacing Portland for the #24 spot - Portland being the revered golden calf of Cincinnati City Council.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:45 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,778,977 times
Reputation: 2959
^
Good post.

Once again a thread about suburban growth is redirected to being about "the city".

As for the numbers posted above one of the rationalizations you will hear is that population changes are due in-part to changing demographics (ie smaller families). A better way to look at..or ID.... a trend of increasing vacancy is to look at changes in the number of households instead of population.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:47 AM
 
3,751 posts, read 10,256,914 times
Reputation: 6566
Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
Lest I be branded as a paranoid "urbanist", let me just say that my earlier post was not to promote city dwelling over the 'burbs, so much as people should live where they are most comfortable, but do it for the right reasons. Just be honest and say "I prefer living at the end of a cul de sac in West Chester in spite of the traffic and commute times." I can respect that. Just like city-dwelling parents may say "I like living in the city in spite of the fact it is more challenging for me to find the right schooling options for my child."
LOL!

No, I didn't take your post to be that of a paranoid urbanist. But when people start to say that the suburbanites "can't wait for the city to fail!" or things of that nature, yah - that's when I start to think I've seen this before (see the attitude of many residents of Detroit, Michigan since the Coleman Young administration in the '70s)

I'm truly glad that Cincinnati seems to be encouraging some new growth. I think from a residential standpoint it has a long way to go, as do many cities (and suburbs) in the midwest who have experienced substantial population loss from their peaks. The midwest is bleeding people to the South, and West. At some point that migration is likely to stop, but in the meantime, its not shocking. Nice weather is appealing to a large segment of people.

Also, I'm truly interested in knowing what separates the residential areas of Cincinnati along the edges from suburbs other than their location within the city border? Really, if I drove through Hyde Park without knowing it was in Cincinnati, I would think it a suburb. Same with Westwood (though a moderately different economic status from Hyde Park).

I just don't see the difference (other than commute time) between people wanting to live there (nice housing stock, primarily residential, close to shopping of some sort) and people wanting to live in the further out spaces (or exurbs as they're now commonly termed) who appreciate the same things?
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:51 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,778,977 times
Reputation: 2959
In the thread header, where is "Union"? (two developments in Union in the linked article). I'm pretty sure its not the Union that's north of Englewood in Mont. County.

For Northern KY, Boone County has been booming since the 1980s at least. What I continue to be suprsied is how far south this development is now, around the I-75/I-71 split, which used to be pretty much beyond the edge of suburbia. Now its starting to be edged by new development.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
31,369 posts, read 57,602,181 times
Reputation: 52239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
In the thread header, where is "Union"? (two developments in Union in the linked article). I'm pretty sure its not the Union that's north of Englewood in Mont. County.
In Kentucky, west of I-71/75.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:34 AM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,032,649 times
Reputation: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
I actually like the many options to choose from within CPS. Some may like the simplicity of just having one school to choose from, nothing wrong with that.
I'm not saying there are not options. It's just that parents in Montgomery don't have to camp out for two weeks to get their kids into the right elementary school. Either that, or shell out more cash to send your kid to a private school out of necessity rather than choice. It's not that it can't be done, it's just harder. But people generally live where they do because they perceive the advantages of living in a particular area as outweighing the negatives.

If you value the fact that you can live anywhere within the Sycamore School District, Blue Ash, Montgomery, wherever, shove your kid out the door in the morning to catch the bus at the end of their driveway, and know that they are going to get the same relative quality of education at Maple Dale or Symmes Elementary, then that's great. By the same token, if you choose to live in Madisonville or Columbia Tusculum, you might think twice about sending your kid to John P. Parker or Riverside Academy, and Plan B isn't always easy or cheap. If you do it right, then the outcome for your child would be every bit as good, if not better than the education they could get elsewhere, but it's harder. A lot of people choose the easier path.
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