End Welfare, Free Housing, and quit promoting laziness in Cincinnati (section 8, hazard insurance)

[EndWelfare]

Is anyone else out there tired of their tax money going to to lazy able bodied people that mooch the system? Let's do something about it!

[yayoi]

We can't have a serious discussion on welfare unless we also discuss the biggest abusers of it, the corporations.

[jlrosen]

welfare is a federal program, I don't see how you could end it in only one city. I really don't think there are that many people who are just sitting around mooching the system. Welfare, or TANF as it is now called has time restrictions for how long you can be drawing benefits, welfare to work requirements, etc.

If you really want to end the cycle of welfare and poverty, you need to get people to jobs. you have rich areas with a lot of jobs and poor areas with many people but few jobs. Since so many of the poor don't have cars, you need to provide expanded bus service or light rail, streetcars, etc. to get people to jobs. That is how you can end welfare.

[The Don]

It's interesting to juxtapose the responses from yayoi and jlrosen. I am not sure what kind of corporate welfare yayoi is referring to but know that corporations are a ficticious entity... Corporations exist to provide services and/or products that society values; for profit coroporations make money for its owners; in the process, they provide jobs for workers, jlrosen's point.
It is true that individuals and governments also provide services and products but private enterprise turns out to be the most efficient and responsive.
As for getting people to the jobs, here is where local governments CAN provide a solution. First question -- why are the jobs NOT being created where the labor is? Can city leadership provide incentives? can they act as facilitators to help corporations locate or remain where the jobs are? can they be sure that graduates from their schools be prepared for the jobs? can they provide efficient transportations from where the labor is to where the jobs are?
As for my last point, this reminds me of a somewhat inspirational situation that I observed very early in my career.
One of my co-workers suffered from cerebral palsy and could hardly get around with the aid of two hand devices. Turns out he lived in Western Hills and worked in Clermont County. He had to take two buses to get to/from work each day. No doubt he had to start his commute each day at 5:30 to report to work at 8:30 each day but he did it!

[Heaveno]

Being one who has been called to assist and empower our most vulnerable populations I think that you need to understand that there is a time limit for those who receive benefits from our government. They also are required to meet 30 hours of training or anything else the job and family service departments approve of. They cannot remain at home, unless they are possible candidates for SSI. If they do not meet the 30 for their assignments, they are sanctioned and their are different steps they will encounter if they continue to not meet their hours. They no longer can sit at home, so having to report to an agency or organization for 30 hours a week for a benefit check becomes useless and they are better off being employed somewhere. They are still entitled to subsidized housing and food benefits. They have to be commended for getting a job, but they cannot control the minimum wage. They certainly need to start planning for a more sercure and prosperous career, but many of them have other barriers to address before they get to that stage. It is one step at a time and some of them achieve milestones.

Now when I first started serving parents who were receiving welfare benefits these were mainly women who were capable of working and were dedicated to being full-time mothers. When the welfare reform was introduced most of those women found work or went back to school. We now have the bottom of the barrel or new young participants who are receiving the benefits. The bottom of the barrel are those who are mentally and emotionally challenged. Many may not ever be able to maintain employment. There are many agencies such as BVR and many others in the cities who have employees who go out to support these workers because they have to many mental problems and need assistance while they are working. They usually will not take their meds or keep their doctor appointments. They are a very challenging population. You also have those who have addictions that need to be tended to. When they are sanctioned for failing to comply to the mandatory 30 hours they lose each time they fail, and the county can go in and get their children if they cannot prove their income after a certain period of time.

[UncleRando]

Quick question...what is the largest housing subsidy in this nation, by far?

Section 8 - NO
Housing Vouchers - NO
Hope VI - NO
Home Ownership - DING, DING, DING

The point is that while it is easy to attack the defenseless in our society it is not necessarily the correct thing to do. The middle and upper classes in our nation are BY FAR the most heavily federally assisted people in our nation; not the poor.

Also another quick fact for you...the vast majority of people who utilize housing vouchers or public housing do NOT also receive welfare. It is an incorrect generalization that these individuals simply "milk" the system, because it just isn't true.

Knowledge is power.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by UncleRando

The point is that while it is easy to attack the defenseless in our society it is not necessarily the correct thing to do. The middle and upper classes in our nation are BY FAR the most heavily federally assisted people in our nation; not the poor.

I am not sure the facts bear you out... consider a typical home owner with a monthly principal + interest payment of $1000. Early in the life of the mortgage the vast majority of that payment goes to principal so say of the $1000, 950 is for interest. Add to that yearly property taxes of $2000.

The schedule A deduction for this would be 950*12+2000 = $13,400. For modest income taxpayers filing MFJ, the marginal tax rate is 28% so the homeowner "subsidy" is $3752 per year or $313 per month.

Now add to that, expenses which non-homeowners do not have to pay, such as heat, hazard insurance, repairs, I don't see the tremendous subsidy.

Also -- as income goes up, the schedule A deduction is phased out, so your statement about higer income individuals may not be accurate; this is without resepect to AMT which is a whole different issue but also eliminates the mortage interest deduction.

The lower income class, on the other hand, in addition to getting subsidized housing, probably is entitled to earned income credit (which could be over $4000) and child credit (up to $1000 per child). It's not unusual for a taxpayer with income of $20000 to have NO tax liability AND get a refund of $2000-$3000.
Next time you go past an H&R Block office in early February, glance inside - you'll see what I mean.

[Derrick_TheRiskTaker]

I think we need to reform the welfare system, if not eliminate it all together. We also need to reconsider our approach to federally and state funded social assistance programs overall. For too long, many people have milked the system for what it is worth. Some have refused to utilize their time receiving assistance to their advantage such as going back to school, getting a degree or even job training.

So overall, I do think we need some level of social assistance, but the state in which we are currently investing is too risky!

[UncleRando]

I also think that we need complete reform of our social programs in this country...and at the risk of sounding socialist, I think they need to be expanded to cover all people and create a safety net of sorts for ALL people.

Government assistance is necessary in this kind of a situation, because the free market is simply not efficient at providing social services. That job is essentially left over for the government to handle. It just needs to be handled in a more efficient and comprehensive manner.

[zorst]

Originally Posted by EndWelfare

Is anyone else out there tired of their tax money going to to lazy able bodied people that mooch the system? Let's do something about it!

I'm voting Libertarian. What are you doing?