Dohoney: Streetcar Has $17.4 Million Shortfall, "Needs More Funding"" (Columbus: health insurance, purchases)

[natininja]

As kjbrill pointed out, capital projects frequently end up costing more than initial projections. So it's likely Portland has hit a budget patch somewhere during its streetcar construction, and if not that, then on the MAX light rail. It's not unique to rail projects, though. It happens for roads and buildings and everything.

It also happens in the private sector. It might be why we've yet to see a rendering for the dunnhumby tower downtown, weeks after construction has begun. This is speculation, but it's not hard to imagine the bid for the preferred building coming in over-budget, prompting negotiation for corner cutting and whatnot. That stuff happens all the time, but usually is not scrutinized and criticized to such an extent as the streetcar.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by natininja

but usually is not scrutinized and criticized to such an extent as the streetcar.

Yep, the streetcar has been political fodder for a while now.

[ohioaninsc]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

the cost of rail system is very high world wide, our rail projects are underfunded, the estimates are all way off. most countries are going to bus lines bek it is so much less and can be subcontracted and can be changed easily. the cost in japan of taking a charter bus instead of bullet train is 1/3 the cost.

I'm very pro transit and I agree w/ this plan...if the cost to build is so high...why not go w/ a buses...Cleveland has major development going all up and down Euclid Ave because of a busline...I would bet that would be much less expensive than a Street Car....

I do understand though that the city can't use the capital funds to take care of the public safety...its just sad that the mayor and city council don't care about the police force and firefighters...they should cut other areas and not fire the most important civil workers in the city.

[ohioaninsc]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

No what was originally anticipated was the 56 million the the governor pulled from the #1 rated project in Ohio.

The state had a major budget crisis...they pulled funding to most local governments...I don't agree w/ a lot of what Kasic has done at all...but he thought the way to go at the state level was to cut spending instead of increasing revenue...unfortunately his platform won in 2010....hopefully 2014 fixes that mistake

[unusualfire]

^Streetcars are not smog causing and require less maintenance. Diesel buses are not the future.

[natininja]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

I'm very pro transit and I agree w/ this plan...if the cost to build is so high...why not go w/ a buses...Cleveland has major development going all up and down Euclid Ave because of a busline...I would bet that would be much less expensive than a Street Car....

Can you at least try to explain why anyone should think the "trackless trolley" alternative would replicate the economic development benefits of fixed-rail transit? You're rehashing an argument that's been around for 6 years of project development without even acknowledging the well-documented response to the concern.

I do understand though that the city can't use the capital funds to take care of the public safety...its just sad that the mayor and city council don't care about the police force and firefighters...they should cut other areas and not fire the most important civil workers in the city.

That's a pretty strong charge that the mayor and council do not care about police/firemen.

Public safety spending consumes Cincinnati’s strained budget — UrbanCincy


Read the linked article for some perspective on the issue. An important thing to note is that the budget for public safety is almost twice that of everything else. If you actually want to impact the budget, it's the obvious place to look. When you consider we've been adding police over the years as the population has decreased, it certainly looks like the obvious place to trim the fat.

Edit: This also illustrates how miniscule the estimated $3mil/year operating expense of the streetcar will be. It won't take much spin-off development to have that covered. Development which a bus would not bring.

[jmecklenborg]

>Blue Ash Airport

Let me clarify this issue..."Hey" asserts that Cincinnati sold the Blue Ash Airport out of desperation. This is completely false.
Moderator cut: personal
Talks to sell the Blue Ash Airport began in the early 2000s, when the city was flush with cash. The sale occurred in 2006, again, well before the economic crisis. The sale was delayed because Blue Ash had to raise funds to purchase the airport. In 2006 their citizens passed an earnings tax increase of .25%, so now their city earnings tax is 1.25%. This tax paid for a new rec center in Blue Ash (***), construction of a big reception hall at the Blue Ash Golf Course, and it paid for purchase of approximately half of the Blue Ash Airport from the City of Cincinnati. This is being paid out in $1 million installments over a period of about 30 years.

Cincinnati still owns about half of the Blue Ash Airport, including the runway. Originally the plan was for the airport to be rebuilt on the opposite side of the runway after the sale. However that has not come to pass and Cincinnati will probably sell the remainder of the airport at some point in the future. If not to Blue Ash then to a private developer. The remaining parcel is valued at around $20 million.

As for the Blue Ash Airport's role in streetcar funding, that began in 2007, when approximately 1/3 of the Blue Ash sale proceeds were dedicated to streetcar construction, or about $10 million. That sum is still reserved for the streetcar. If the project is cancelled, that sum BY STATE LAW CANNOT be used to pay police and fire salaries.

[Yac]

A couple of things:
1 - just because someone doesn't listen to your arguments and posts what you consider to be bs, doesn't mean he's a troll. People are different, people have different opinions. Trolling assumes intent to cause controversy.
2 - calling other member trolls is against the tos as we consider it a personal attack. Please remember that 2 wrongs don't make a right.
3 - You can put certain members on ignore and you won't have to read their posts again.
If anyone wants to discuss what happened here in more detail, contact me in private.
Yac.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Yep, the streetcar has been political fodder for a while now.

I'd say this is an acute understatement. What I don't understand is why those responsible for issuing the construction contracts keep procrastinating. What are they afraid of? Build Phase I so everybody can see the result. If the operating costs become overburdening trim the schedule to a tourist and party going attraction only. Even that has merit for the rejuvenated downtown.

The Phase II Uptown route is an entirely different consideration. It is only justifiable as a self-supporting transit route. But how can this be determined if Phase I keeps getting delayed?

I obviously am not a Cincinnati resident or voter. But I am a Cincinnati Area resident and as such have an interest in what happens in the City. And part of this involves What is going on? How can the streetcar issue have survived so many voter referendums and still be no further along than it is? Perhaps the politicians ignore the mandates of the people because they do not believe their votes are in proportion to their influence?

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

^Streetcars are not smog causing and require less maintenance. Diesel buses are not the future.

Indirectly they do contribute to smog in the atmosphere. Most likely the street cars are operating via an electric line. In the case of Ohio nearly 78% of the electricity produced is from coal fired plants.

Where does Ohio