Mt. Auburn or OTR (Cincinnati, Findlay: cheap apartments, rental, lofts)

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Steelcity412

So I want to stay south of Liberty? I found a vacancy that has my interest on W.13th st between Vine and Republic. This is below Liberty so is it safe to assume this area is generally ok?

Yes. There is a lot of construction going on Republic now, a little further up towards 15th. And by "stay south of Liberty," we are talking about where to live. You will definitely want to head to Findlay Market and Tucker's.

[restorationconsultant]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

This is repeated ad naseaum on these forums, but can anyone actually substantiate the claim that development in OTR is pushing out the poor?

Its not hard to see Tom, When you have Churches like the one at Vine and Findlay selling out to move out of OTR (along with a block of commerial/residential properties they owned) its not hard to figure out that not only have their parishoners moved out of the community, the people they serve have moved on as well.

Those who 'minister' to the poor, read the writing on the wall five years ago. Look at the number of storefront churches that used to be operational that are gone. Most of "the poor" left OTR 3-5 yrs ago and the few that left are being priced out because slumlords can get 50-100K for building and move on. The people who used to live in OTR were scattered to Price Hill, Fairmount, Westwood and Avondale and West end/Dayton street. And now they are getting priced out of those neighborhoods.

Price Hill Will just sold a house on Squire for 144K, I am doing a double to townhouse conversion in Knox Hill that will sell for 195-225 a side (and most of the interest has been from OTR residents who are being priced out of the rental condo market). I am doinga single family at 350K. Prices are going up and we are already seeing section 8 opportunites in the townships as 'slumlords' take the money and run.

One would have to be blind to not see the poor are being pushed out of OTR. It is part of the cycle of redevelopment and neighborhood turnaround, and those "below market rate units' done by developers are time limited and can go market rate in a few years. Does anyone believe a developer will sit with a 450 a month below rate unit that they can get 1400 for? 3CDC and other developers use those tax credits to defray cost and for few years they have to do a 'few' low income units, BUT, only for few years and I dont think they will "preserve economicic diversity" by taking a loss on unit they can get 3-4 times what they were getting.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by restorationconsultant

Its not hard to see Tom, When you have Churches like the one at Vine and Findlay selling out to move out of OTR (along with a block of commerial/residential properties they owned) its not hard to figure out that not only have their parishoners moved out of the community, the people they serve have moved on as well.

Well, that church was at Elm and Findlay and they moved because the church had outgrown the building in OTR.

New Prospect Baptist Church: Cincinnati, Ohio

• 2009: With the church continuing its rapid growth, plans were launched to relocate the church to a larger space. The vision is to further the kingdom of Christ and empower the African American community in Greater Cincinnati.
• 2011: The church purchased a 102,929 square-foot building on 26 acres of land to begin the first phase of the new building and the start of a new era.

Call me blind, but what I don't see is this supposed mass exodus of "the poor" from OTR, spurred by development. What I do see is vacant buildings being rehabbed. Your hypothesis doesn't really hit the nail on the head. The last big out migration from OTR followed the riots in 2001. But in the fantasy land of city data forums there is this supposed push to run all the poor out of OTR.

3CDC immediately encountered resistance from the neighborhood's homeless advocates, who claimed they were displacing the poor, but according to 3CDC "at least 90 percent" of the buildings the agency bought were vacant.

[jmecklenborg]

I don't believe that the poor have any right to occupy a historic district nor do I believe it should be a venue for drug dealing and prostitution. If you were here 10 years ago, it was total lawlessness and buildings were collapsing regularly. This summer will mark the 10-year anniversary of the Empire Theater fiasco.

OTR/West End is too big for people to get priced out in a blink like what has happened repeatedly in New York City. I personally know many people who rent for under $500/mo in OTR. Granted those are mostly 2-bedroom roommate situations, but nevertheless those units still exist in large numbers.

[progmac]

My obersrvation is that OTR is not going to be the "***-bay-yah multi income, racially diverse neighborhood" everyone expected it would be. Anyone can see that Gentrification is/has come to OTR in a big way. Also if other cities who have gone through their renaisance are any indication...the "Hip Urban trendy vibe" will be replaced with upscale executives, in short, in less than 5-7 years many of the 20 somethings are going to find they are 'priced out' of the neighborhood.

this is so true, i'm surprised people don't see it. the arts scene is already starting to be priced out.

[CinciFan]

I'd rather see Over-the-Rhine become an upscale neighborhood than remain a slum like it was 10 years ago.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by progmac

this is so true, i'm surprised people don't see it. the arts scene is already starting to be priced out.

I was in NYC when the gentrification hit Williamsburg in it's earliest stages in the early 90s. You know what young people do when housing is expensive? They get room-mates. That's how young people make it in NYC. So if OTR gets expensive, which it likely will at some point, why do you guys think the 20 something, hip crowd will just disappear. It doesn't work that way.

I don't know why folks in Cincinnati expect OTR to be the dumping ground for the socially disadvantaged, drug dealers, thugs, and the like. The status quo should change. There is no way the urban core should be ghetto. Cincinnati is doing the right thing, and if OTR become upscale, that's all the better.

[t45209]

Originally Posted by CinciFan

I'd rather see Over-the-Rhine become an upscale neighborhood than remain a slum like it was 10 years ago.

If it had stayed a slum, it wouldn't exist for much longer. That's what the social engineers conveniently forget about. "We need to have a place for the poor to live!" What good does it do them if the buildings are literally falling down on their heads? Economically, OTR as place for the poor to live was unsustainable, and the conditions of the buildings, more than anything, has driven them out to other areas.

[t45209]

Originally Posted by Steelcity412

There are several neighborhoods in Pittsburgh where this has happened as well. Lawrenceville and East Liberty have sketchy pasts that still scare some people to this day yet the rent in these neighborhoods is skyrocketing. Its sad in a way because the people who made these areas attractive in the first place can no longer live there. I have first hand experience of this as an East Liberty resident. Rent in this neighborhood is going through the roof despite being not far removed from being a place the weak at heart didnt dare travel through alone after sunset. Frankly there are still considerably dangerous people in small pockets in East Lib but the Gentrification has taken this area from dangerous to hip to overpriced in the blink of an eye. Not something I want to deal with again in a new city. Id rather put up with a little grittiness as opposed to being priced out by people who swoop in and overrun the neighborhood they were afraid of before urban pioneers made it a viable option

Maybe then, OTR is a bit further along than you want. Search this forum for threads on Walnut Hills. It's a stone's throw from Mt. Auburn, and you can be downtown in two minutes. It's anchored by Eden Park, the largest and nicest in the city, and the neighborhood is sewing the seeds of a turn around. It's on the east side of the city, which offers an advantage on that basis alone. All the neighborhood needs is a few more people like you.

[Wildview]

OTR is only getting more expensive. Trying to purchase a 1 bedroom condo for less than $120k is nearly impossible. When the rare 1 Bedroom for less than $120k comes up it's normally smaller, with a $250 monthly condo fee, no guaranteed parking and it's going to sell in less than a week. The urban pioneers/artsy folks that started this new turnaround will be pushed elsewhere, likely Northside but the prices on the east side of Northside and just west of Hamilton Ave have seen an increase as well. Most condo's I've seen for sale in OTR recently have been $150k + condo fee and parking fee. As a single young professional that's out of my price range. Affordable rentals can be found but they typically go very quickly and I imagine the rent will be rising as the neighborhood keeps growing in desirability.

I don't see this trend changing unless renovation outpaces demand. As long as they can continue to sell the units at these prices they'll keep offering units at these prices.