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I have never been unable to understand how other cities have been following the pattern Cincinnati is now following and have been able to retain and attract businesses and residents, but the same thing could NEVER be sustainable in Cincinnati according some Cincinnatians. And I'm not even speaking about people on this forum. I've been part of conversations with one of the successful landlords in CUF, and his take on OTR was that "it's one bullet from all coming to a stop." Never mind that it's been under-way for nearly a decade.
As a transplant to Cincinnati (who came here for Cincinnati Children's) I have come to realize that many people in the area have serious tunnel vision when it comes to stabilizing the urban core, and why that is so important for the health of a city. Nevertheless, OTR will continue to be developed and yuppiefied/gentrified and will likely become expensive and crowded at some point. That in turn is good for surrounding neighborhoods because there will likely be increased demand.
No crystal ball needed. Development in OTR/downtown is being financed and pushed by corporations. It will not stop. And I've seen the exact thing play out in New York, and also Chicago when I was there on the south side in 2004, and a friend of mine toured me around much of the redevelopment that was happening there.
I think some Cincinnatians are used to OTR being the dumping ground for the disadvantaged and they don't want them moving in their backyard.
Wealthy people don't have as many kids as poor people and take up more space per capita, so if a neighborhood gentrifies, it might actually end up with fewer residents than before, despite having rehabbed housing stock and an active business district. You will see a lot more people living alone in 2-bedroom homes, condos, and apartments. That is why OTR's population might fall in the 2020 census despite having experienced a 180 degree turnaround.
So even after having pointed out this likelihood, the same people will still use population loss as a sign that the city is in decline.
Highly unlikely since the population had already all but bottomed out at around 5000, pushed along by a quickly dwindling number of habitable buildings (and the occasional shooting every now and again). Smaller households among yuppies and urban d-bags? Certainly. But, they are replacing at an increasing rate a population that was already on the march in part because institutionalized poverty and 150 year old buildings are incompatible. In fact, I wonder how many buildings that are now high end lofts and apartments are in buildings that were abandoned or were converted to residential from commerical or industrial? I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of actual displacement was rather low.
I'd rather put my money on an OTR population increase.
Cities do not have many tools and do not have many incentives to improve the lives of the poor. This is why the federal and state governments pay for housing (section 8, etc.), food (food stamps, school lunches/breakfasts), and health care (Medicaid). Oddly, the state and federal governments DO NOT pay for public transportation OR schooling. So the burden of public schools and public transportation falls on local governments, which is why we have vastly unequal schooling and bus/rail systems from city to city. It should also be pointed out that the feds/state pay to house and feed the poor, but DO NOT pay to police or jail them. Again, that expense falls on localities, and in fact police are usually the single most expensive thing any city does.
Please tell us what, specifically, Cincinnati is able to and should do under Ohio law that it is not doing currently.
I have always thought a progressive property tax for residential property makes even more sense than a progressive income tax, but I don't know enough about tax law to understand the consequences of that. Possibly a cap on tax deferment so that adding a fifth bedroom isn't treated the same as bringing a 75K house up to code.
Specifically, I would like to see Cincinnati invest in neighborhoods like Westwood, Madisonville, and Roselawn more and in neighborhoods like Hyde Park, Downtown, and Mt. Adams less. I would like to see bike trails, buried utilities, and 'fixed' intersections. There is no reason why the public infrastructure on the Reading road corridor shouldn't be as nice as it is on Madison Road.
This is simply not true. 3CDC and "preservationists" created this rumor that the area was vacant. The true number of residents displaced will likely never be known. In fact the census office highlighted OTR as a region where counting residents was virtually impossible due to their locally transient nature.
The fact is that 95% of the residents displaced were AAs affected by generational poverty, so what did it matter because some hipster wanted a 300k condo to show her "edginess".
Why weren't the basketball courts replaced in Washington Park? Because the new residents didn't want AAs near their new digs.
OMG - misinformation at it's finest. And have you been to Washington Park? I'm there frequently with my child and it's loaded with all races...and they get along...who would have ever though that could happen?
This is simply not true. 3CDC and "preservationists" created this rumor that the area was vacant. The true number of residents displaced will likely never be known. In fact the census office highlighted OTR as a region where counting residents was virtually impossible due to their locally transient nature.
From 3CDC's website:
Quote:
When 3CDC started its work, there were 500 vacant buildings, 700 vacant lots and 1,667 vacant housing units within these boundaries. One of 3CDC’s first steps was to invest $27 million to land bank more than 300 buildings and lots so they would not suffer from further deterioration before redevelopment could occur.
I am not surprised how on this forum those with roots in the area are not pleased with the current iteration of urban policy, but the transplants love it.
Speak for yourself. My family goes back generations in Cincinnati, and everyone in my immediate family supports the methods being used to rebuild the city (including the streetcar). We all see the city heading in the right direction, including my libertarian father, whose life has been spent watching the city arrive at, and slip from, its 1950s growth peak. All my immediate family, except myself, are current city residents and registered voters.
I also have many life-long Cincinnatian friends, also city residents and voters, who support the positive momentum. So far as I can tell, the highest correlating factor of support or dissent is whether or not one is a city resident vs. a suburban resident. Not whether or not one is a native vs. a transplant. Even the people I know on the west side feel things are looking up.
If you tweak your definition of "transplant" to include anyone who doesn't have a security blanket-style attachment to their childhood home and the way things used to be 30+ years ago, you might have a point.
So far as I can tell, the highest correlating factor of support or dissent is whether or not one is a city resident vs. a suburban resident. Not whether or not one is a native vs. a transplant. Even the people I know on the west side feel things are looking up.
If you tweak your definition of "transplant" to include anyone who doesn't have a security blanket-style attachment to their childhood home and the way things used to be 30+ years ago, you might have a point.
There are so few of us who post on City Data, but even with that recognized, the urban/suburban divide manages to shine through. I see it manifest itself on the cess pool comment sections of local news sites as well. How anyone could allow themselves to wish failure on a city is beyond me. It's just plain hateful. But this divide will no doubt remain for some time, as long as the likes of COAST and WLW talk show hosts can continue to foment division.
Speak for yourself. My family goes back generations in Cincinnati, and everyone in my immediate family supports the methods being used to rebuild the city (including the streetcar). We all see the city heading in the right direction, including my libertarian father, whose life has been spent watching the city arrive at, and slip from, its 1950s growth peak. All my immediate family, except myself, are current city residents and registered voters.
I also have many life-long Cincinnatian friends, also city residents and voters, who support the positive momentum. So far as I can tell, the highest correlating factor of support or dissent is whether or not one is a city resident vs. a suburban resident. Not whether or not one is a native vs. a transplant. Even the people I know on the west side feel things are looking up.
If you tweak your definition of "transplant" to include anyone who doesn't have a security blanket-style attachment to their childhood home and the way things used to be 30+ years ago, you might have a point.
I tend to agree. Usually Chemistry offers some pretty well reasoned comments, but this one mystifies me. My family on all sides goes back as far as the 1840s in Cincinnati. If anything, I am hoping that the city's momentum is a movement to recapture the glory days of Cincinnati that only my grandparents got to experience. I'd say Cincinnati was at its best between 1890 and 1955. From there, it's been downhill. I see a lot of positive change in last decade or two, and am doing all I can to be part of it. My family thought I was nuts when I bought my first house in a crappy neighborhood like Oakley in the early 1990s. Who's laughing now? Even they get it these days.
My family thought I was nuts when I bought my first house in a crappy neighborhood like Oakley in the early 1990s. Who's laughing now? Even they get it these days.
If your family thought Oakley was a crappy neighborhood I am guessing you are originally from the Hyde Park/Mt. Lookout area. I think your perspective would be a lot different if you had family in Madisonville, Kennedy Heights, Price Hill, Westwood, or College Hill. I guess I get too much of my "word on the street" at the Bramble Patch in Madisonville and at various catholic parish festivals. If my interactions are the exception rather than the rule I would be surprised, but I guess in a pleasant way.
Personally I don't really have a dog in the fight for the urban vs. suburban discussion. I live in Amberley but I have property in the city that has been appreciating, and my serious girlfriend has a duplex in the Eden Park area. I didn't move to Amberley to escape the city, I moved here because my ex-wife worked in Mason and we were trying to split the distance on our commutes. I could see myself moving to Clifton Gaslight, Walnut Hills or even North Avondale in the not-so-distant future to be closer to work, so I am not living in fear of 'urban' demographics or lifestyle. Still, I am attached to the east side neighborhoods where I grew up as well as the west side neighborhoods where my dad grew up. Maybe it is just my family's bad luck, or maybe just our stubbornness in not moving away when others were fleeing outside the 275 loop, but nearly all of the streets that I identify with most have declined and are still declining or flat.
I have always thought a progressive property tax for residential property makes even more sense than a progressive income tax, but I don't know enough about tax law to understand the consequences of that. Possibly a cap on tax deferment so that adding a fifth bedroom isn't treated the same as bringing a 75K house up to code.
Specifically, I would like to see Cincinnati invest in neighborhoods like Westwood, Madisonville, and Roselawn more and in neighborhoods like Hyde Park, Downtown, and Mt. Adams less. I would like to see bike trails, buried utilities, and 'fixed' intersections. There is no reason why the public infrastructure on the Reading road corridor shouldn't be as nice as it is on Madison Road.
good point. maintaining our arterials in tip-top shape should be a top priority. reading road is an embarrassment.
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