Light Rail - Where and how do we get started! (Cincinnati: construction, sales tax)

[natininja]

^ Do you have any of those pills/blotters/buds/whatevers to spare?

[jmecklenborg]

>In your dreams. First of all the earnings tax for people who work downtown is paid to the City of Cincinnati, not Hamilton County.

Ohio permits both cities and counties to levy property taxes. But only cities can levy earnings taxes and only counties can levy sales taxes. So this means Hamilton County workers pay Cincinnati's property tax and Cincinnati's city workers pay Hamilton County's sales tax. In Ohio cities and counties have virtually zero overlap in services. All that business you hear about saving money by merging the city and county is a bunch of b.s.

>Without the earnings tax the City would be in deep doo-doo.

Under Ohio law it is impossible for a city to not have an earnings tax because cities are obligated to provide specific services that townships and villages are not. Municipal earnings taxes began in Ohio in 1947.


>Yes there is a good amount of property tax on the commercial buildings downtown, but what is the split between the City and the County?

Look at any property in the City of Cincinnati at Hamilton County Auditor Dusty Rhodes. Every property has a pie chart showing the breakdown. County property taxes are about half of city property taxes. City property taxes are about 10-20% lower than Cincinnati Public Schools. Keep in mind that CPS has a budget almost identical (mid-$400 millions) to the City of Cincinnati, but is limited to property taxes for revenue.


>Downtown funds the City not the County.

Downtown county property taxes and sales taxes go to the county.

[jmecklenborg]

>Oh, let me guess, it starts with taxes, the first bastion of the liberal left. Let the other guy pay for it.

How did the interstate highway system get built? With taxes. If I don't own a car but buy a gallon of gasoline for a lawnmower, I pay 18.5 cents toward a highway trust fund I never drive on.

[jmecklenborg]

A video on big plans in Los Angeles (includes footage of the brand new Gold Line light rail subway):

A Subway Story: Metro's Westside Subway Extension (Long Version) - YouTube

This heavy rail subway is costing roughly $500 million per mile to construct. It must be heavy rail because the existing subway it will link to is heavy rail. All of the other rail lines in LA are light rail.

A subway in Cincinnati would be much less expensive - half as expensive per mile at the most - for several reasons:

1. It would be light rail, which is always less expensive than heavy rail
2. Stations would be shorter, because trains would be shorter
3. Wages and taxes are lower here
4. No earthquake design features

[WILWRadio]

^^^That is highway robbery and I don't believe anyone in their right mind can justify this cost per mile to develop a subway in this economy, especially in California which is in terrible financial straights.

At least utilizing the existing tunnels in Cincinnati would result in a much lower cost to build a rail system or at least use it as a starting point. At least we know the tax payers in Cincinnati would have enough sense to vote down an outrageously expensive project such as what is being proposed in LA if it came to a vote in Cincinnati.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

This heavy rail subway is costing roughly $500 million per mile to construct.

I was living in LA when they were working on the subway line that connected downtown to Western Avenue in Hollywood. Apparently, they have built a decent system there in the 20 something years since I lived there.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

>Oh, let me guess, it starts with taxes, the first bastion of the liberal left. Let the other guy pay for it.

How did the interstate highway system get built? With taxes. If I don't own a car but buy a gallon of gasoline for a lawnmower, I pay 18.5 cents toward a highway trust fund I never drive on.

Sorry that 18.5 cents a gallon gasoline tax for your lawnmower is going to break you up. Another example of apples and oranges. All the lawnmowers combined for a year do not add up to one day's usage of diesel fuel by the trucking industry. The dominant payers of the fuel tax are also the dominant users of the highways it goes to fund. I can't think of a more fairly distributed tax.

If the 18.5 cents bothers you so much, why not get an electric lawnmower? Much more environmentally friendly as small displacement gasoline engines are notorious polluters.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Sorry that 18.5 cents a gallon gasoline tax for your lawnmower is going to break you up.

But I don't have a lawnmower and am forced to pay taxes for those that do!

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

We need leadership and everyone working together to get Light rail started.

You have highlighted two problems.
1) Leadership - few and far between. The majority do not want to lead, they just want to remain in office and collect their perks. Just about everything which comes out of their mouths is aimed at getting their constituents to reelect them.
2) Everyone working together. Name me one significant advancement over the last 50 years in this country which was a result of everyone working together. What we may call advancements are usually the result of one group or faction forcing their view down everyone else's throat, typically by the laws enacted by their duly authorized elected representatives.

Taking the Altruistic High Road in this endeavor in my belief will not go very far. My own opinion is something over 50% of the population wants mothing to do with rail in any shape or form. Something less than 50% of the population wants rail to alleviate various problems such the intent to live without a car and all its related expenses. Big cities are the obvious best places to accomplish this.

The main reason for the close 50% split is the increasing concentration of people in the major urban areas. But while I call them urban, several are not in reality all that urban with respect to population density per sq. mile. The term urban sprawl is more appropriate.

Everyone keeps stating how streetcars and light rail in its various forms runs on electricity.
1) First of all I hate to think of more overhead wires strung across the city. Who thinks there is anything aesthetically pleasing about that?
2) And were is all of this electricity going to come from? I keep reading about how the coal fired electricity plants in this section of the country will be shutting down due to regulations they cannot combat. So since the country as a whole has voted down nuclear, where do you think all of this electrical power is going to come from?

[WILWRadio]

One thing that needs to be considered is the potential for crime against people using mass transit. Recently in Kansas City there instances of riders and even a couple of bus drivers having been attacked by riders. One driver was stabbed just this past week. The negative connotation of using mass transit has to be alleviated and the perception that using mass transit is quite safe if rail is going to sell.