2013 Election (Cincinnati, Mason: place to live, litigation, malls)

[hensleya1]

Motion to suspend all work on the streetcar passes 5-4.

It's about damn time.

It's amusing to watch Yvette Simpson whine like a spoiled, petulant child when she doesn't get her way. As a legal professional she is an embarrassment to the whole profession.

[Señor Slick]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Motion to suspend all work on the streetcar passes 5-4.

It's about damn time.

It's amusing to watch Yvette Simpson whine like a spoiled, petulant child when she doesn't get her way. As a legal professional she is an embarrassment to the whole profession.

And you don't find anything amusing about Cranley, Smitherman and Winburn's antics? I would give them some respect if I thought all were sincere about looking at the auditor's numbers and making an objective decision. These guys are about anything but the good of the city. Why would they turn down "free" money from a private foundation in lieu of spending taxpayer money on the audit?

[Mplsite]

Well, I had already seen the writing on the wall and got out of this state, but for those that insist that a city in those borders will actually embrace progressive urban policies in some distant future I hope this is a wake up call, because the Ohio of the 1960s wins yet again, so people like hensleya1 can enjoy getting back to the business of their city losing around another 10% of its population for a third consecutive decade. Of course, there's no need to study or vote on an untold price tag many times higher than a streetcar starter line for a highway interchange or expensive road widening projects. Are they necessary? Who cares: more is good and no one complains. For proof just search and compare the (virtually non-existent) naysaying for adding extra lanes onto roads.

I just don't get the suburbanite mentality of even city residents who don't understand that contiunued suburbanization of the city has only made things worse and there are decades of precedents in every large city in the state of Ohio that this is a bad thing. You may not ever ride a streetcar or the light rail or a train between cities, but plenty of people still do and a successful city must actually be a real city and not try to fake it. A city that caters to suburbanites never wins because it will never be the suburbs and so when given the choice suburbanites not surprisingly opt for the burbs since no matter what the city can't win since at its best it's a watered down suburb. And the city lovers leave cities like Cincinnati because they don't want to offer the basic necessities of a real city and one of those components is rail transit (and bike infrastructure, which Cincinnati loses even when up against numerous Twin Cities suburbs for crying out loud). Oh, and guess what? While motorists and bus riders were stalled in traffic from the 6 inches of snow we got today the light rail and commuter trains were running on schedule with no delays. Nice to have options, isn't it?

Real cities offer multi-modal transit and can't move fast enough to add it where it's lacking. Meanwhile Cincinnati has effectively killed a renewed streetcar system which, when you look at all the streetcar-oriented neighborhoods in Ohio's large cities the vast majority were in way better shape when streetcars were running, but let's pretend that's not true. Meanwhile, Columbus is busy spending much of its transportation budget on widening high-speed arterial suburban roads and letting ODOT tear down part of a newly revitalized business district and Cleveland thinks a street-level highway will cure its ills along with tearing down occupied businesses and homes and who the hell knows what Toledo's doing but I'm sure it's not worth mentioning.

Well Cincinnati, you've certainly done a hell of a job matching the company you keep. For disillusioned Cincinnatians who want to live in a city that wants to move forward and backs it up (hello, we're like the #1 bike-friendly city in the country and actually trying to get as many light-rail lines up as possible) there are plenty of other cities like mine which will welcome like-minded city slickers who will be appreciated in improving our cities.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Mplsite

Well, I had already seen the writing on the wall and got out of this state, but for those that insist that a city in those borders will actually embrace progressive urban policies in some distant future I hope this is a wake up call, because the Ohio of the 1960s wins yet again, so people like hensleya1 can enjoy getting back to the business of their city losing around another 10% of its population for a third consecutive decade. Of course, there's no need to study or vote on an untold price tag many times higher than a streetcar starter line for a highway interchange or expensive road widening projects. Are they necessary? Who cares: more is good and no one complains. For proof just search and compare the (virtually non-existent) naysaying for adding extra lanes onto roads.

I just don't get the suburbanite mentality of even city residents who don't understand that contiunued suburbanization of the city has only made things worse and there are decades of precedents in every large city in the state of Ohio that this is a bad thing. You may not ever ride a streetcar or the light rail or a train between cities, but plenty of people still do and a successful city must actually be a real city and not try to fake it. A city that caters to suburbanites never wins because it will never be the suburbs and so when given the choice suburbanites not surprisingly opt for the burbs since no matter what the city can't win since at its best it's a watered down suburb. And the city lovers leave cities like Cincinnati because they don't want to offer the basic necessities of a real city and one of those components is rail transit (and bike infrastructure, which Cincinnati loses even when up against numerous Twin Cities suburbs for crying out loud). Oh, and guess what? While motorists and bus riders were stalled in traffic from the 6 inches of snow we got today the light rail and commuter trains were running on schedule with no delays. Nice to have options, isn't it?

Real cities offer multi-modal transit and can't move fast enough to add it where it's lacking. Meanwhile Cincinnati has effectively killed a renewed streetcar system which, when you look at all the streetcar-oriented neighborhoods in Ohio's large cities the vast majority were in way better shape when streetcars were running, but let's pretend that's not true. Meanwhile, Columbus is busy spending much of its transportation budget on widening high-speed arterial suburban roads and letting ODOT tear down part of a newly revitalized business district and Cleveland thinks a street-level highway will cure its ills along with tearing down occupied businesses and homes and who the hell knows what Toledo's doing but I'm sure it's not worth mentioning.

Well Cincinnati, you've certainly done a hell of a job matching the company you keep. For disillusioned Cincinnatians who want to live in a city that wants to move forward and backs it up (hello, we're like the #1 bike-friendly city in the country and actually trying to get as many light-rail lines up as possible) there are plenty of other cities like mine which will welcome like-minded city slickers who will be appreciated in improving our cities.

While we have a tiny bit of common ground in totally disagreeing with what Cincinnati is doing regarding the streetcar, once again you can't help yourself from completely making stuff up to try and get your point across on how awesome you are for moving away. I can't imagine all that smug, self-satisfaction gets you many friends, even in 2nd-rate MSP.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I definitely agree with that. Just what is the new city government proposing to recoup the wasted money on the streetcar. It is one thing to take a position the streetcar is too expensive. It is another to say we will just throw the money spent down the drain for no gain because we disagree. These people obviously have just one attitude, the money thrown away is not theirs, just yours. Cincy you elected them, now you will have to live with them.

Agreed. The city is getting what it voted for, unfortunately. The tea party suburbanites are a joke and are doing nothing but damaging the city's reputation.

[Komeht]

Wow - this is certainly an embarrassment for Cincinnati. Not being willing to take Free Money for 1 Week to study the cost of aborting absolutely STINKS of ideology.

Cincinnati end up spending 100Million and have zip to show for it. Actually, less than that as they will lose - for a very very very long time, federal dollars on transit and they now have the biggest, baddest debt collector in the country - the US Federal Government coming to take back what they mistakenly thought was a good investment. sucker born every minute. But boy, they sure won't make that mistake twice.

Wow - unbelievable. Wow. Truly the worst case of abuse of the public trust on the local level that I've ever heard of. This will be the stuff of legends. A 100 Million and. . .nothing.

[chet_kinkaid]

The tragedy of this whole episode is that the people who mislead the public and made bad policy decisions can't be held financially liable for costing the taxpayers so much ,all the while they were misleading with cost figures..who did they think was going to pay for all the overruns and underestimated operating costs?whether or not you think a streetcar trolley is good or bad ,it would be nice to get the truth about the actual costs and how they would be paid for..then let the public decide.

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Agreed. The city is getting what it voted for, unfortunately. The tea party suburbanites are a joke and are doing nothing but damaging the city's reputation.

jbcmh81--

Because all those tea party suburbanites from West Chester and Mason voted for John Cranley in Cincinnati's mayoral election, right?

Fact of the matter is, Cincinnati doesn't want the streetcar. Outside of a very loud and vocal minority in OTR/CUF/CBD, nobody else wants it. They've flooded the editorial pages of the Enquirer and other media outlets, they're loud, they're obnoxious, and they're certainly passionate in their belief. But it doesn't change that they're a very small minority.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

The city is getting what it voted for, unfortunately. The tea party suburbanites are a joke and are doing nothing but damaging the city's reputation.

Civics 101: "Tea party suburbanites" don't vote in city elections.

[isolace]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

jbcmh81--

Because all those tea party suburbanites from West Chester and Mason voted for John Cranley in Cincinnati's mayoral election, right?

Fact of the matter is, Cincinnati doesn't want the streetcar. Outside of a very loud and vocal minority in OTR/CUF/CBD, nobody else wants it. They've flooded the editorial pages of the Enquirer and other media outlets, they're loud, they're obnoxious, and they're certainly passionate in their belief. But it doesn't change that they're a very small minority.

Just like people from Dayton commenting on Cincinnati politics, right?

The "very small" minority will prevail over the political dealings and shenanigans over a very crooked mayor.