Gangs in Cincinnati (Reading: real estate, public school, salaries)

[Cincy-Rise]

I think I'm alone on this board ... but I like our current politicians. I'm happy with our mayor and city council and think they're taking the hand that was delt to them and playing the right cards per say.

[unusualfire]

Nothing is wrong with the funding in school. It's the students and that lack of a male figure(positive role model) in their lives. Fix that problem then crime and gangs will diminish GREATLY.

[franke01]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Nothing is wrong with the funding in school. It's the students and that lack of a male figure(positive role model) in their lives. Fix that problem then crime and gangs will diminish GREATLY.

Makes sense to me!

Unfortunately, it is no doubt anathema to the current political climate into which we seem to be devolving.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by franke01

I agree that Cincinnati "hasn't had but a handful of quality politicians".

But, unfortunately, I think we tend to get what what we elect if, in fact, we even bother to vote. And if we don't make any effort to look behind the campaign slogans and make any kind of attempt to understand what the issues are and where the candidates really stand, then I think we probably get what we deserve.

BTW, do you really think that Federal employees and/or politicians would be capable of administering a grant of $1 trillion to the Department of Education?

What makes them any more competent than the locals that you seem to hold in low regard? And woud you really trust them to figure out whatever the heck "historical need" means?

they aren't. i thought noting the 454 billion to iraq told how i feel about washington.

historical need - what states and districts have been performing the worst for the longest.

there's nothing wrong with the schools? nothing? it doesn't bother you that ohio's schools are illicit in existence and illegal in practice? poor public education is america's biggest problem.

[unusualfire]

Well public schools get double the funding private school does yet private schools perform better with the same educated teacher. It's about the students period. Public schools need to have all schools wear the same uniform so there is no more competition in the courtyards.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Well public schools get double the funding private school does yet private schools perform better with the same educated teacher. It's about the students period. Public schools need to have all schools wear the same uniform so there is no more competition in the courtyards.

so you're blaming children for not achieving in public schools and proclaiming kids that attend private schools are somehow better people, or worse, smarter? wow.

[Hartwell Girl]

Hillside, you twist things to fit your arguements. Where did he say he was blaming the children? Seriously? DO you come on here to pick fights? THe problem with CPS right now is the lack of leadership, no support for teachers when kids threaten them, no involvement from parents and lack of funding from the state of Ohio. My son attends a private school because he is Catholic. My son is no smarter than the kids at any public school but he appreciates the opportunity to go to a great school-that makes him a good kid. And parents are involved in private schools because in my opinion they are paying for the education. Even parents who get vouchers for private schools dont really get involved and dont try to tell me they dont...remember my son has attended private school his whole life and I am very involved in a CPS school. I equally blame the parents and the state funding. If 'poor" parents really wanted a better education for their children they would keep them off the streets, make them study and attend class everyday and go to every school function that school has. Knowledge is power and it is the PARENTS responsibility to make sure they obtain book smarts, not street smarts. I dont care how much money someone has.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Hartwell Girl

Hillside, you twist things to fit your arguements. Where did he say he was blaming the children? Seriously? DO you come on here to pick fights? THe problem with CPS right now is the lack of leadership, no support for teachers when kids threaten them, no involvement from parents and lack of funding from the state of Ohio. My son attends a private school because he is Catholic. My son is no smarter than the kids at any public school but he appreciates the opportunity to go to a great school-that makes him a good kid. And parents are involved in private schools because in my opinion they are paying for the education. Even parents who get vouchers for private schools dont really get involved and dont try to tell me they dont...remember my son has attended private school his whole life and I am very involved in a CPS school. I equally blame the parents and the state funding. If 'poor" parents really wanted a better education for their children they would keep them off the streets, make them study and attend class everyday and go to every school function that school has. Knowledge is power and it is the PARENTS responsibility to make sure they obtain book smarts, not street smarts. I dont care how much money someone has.

hartwell girl, read what unusualfire said....

"public schools get double the funding private school does yet private schools perform better with the same educated teacher. It's about the students period."

that is an acquittal of the instruction and systematic leadership and an indictment of the pupil as the issue with a failing education system. students are to be educated. apparently unusualfire believes that either...

a. having parents with the means to send you to a private school makes you smarter or a better student, which is a privatization of the issue of instruction and the child.

or..

b. attending a private school magically makes you a better student and more enlightened with knowledge the second you walk through, because as unusualfire suggests, the instruction and leadership is equal for public and private.

what is your insinuation with "poor"?

"making" a kid study doesn't work. it's an outdated philosophy that socially and psychologically doesn't encourage good things emotionally.

even if it was as simple as sitting a kid down and making them study, we wouldn't be having this conversation and this world would be a lot different. but what you suggested as a solution to what has been proven to be one of the most complex issues in the socio-commercial world just doesn't play. if you want to talk about kids and studying, you have to talk about...

the structure of the american household

the economy

housing

where they grew up and what they have experienced

the structure of the schools and the quality of the education the child received in grade school

standardized testing

student evaluations - many kids, overwhelmingly black and hispanic, are classified as mentally retarded or incapable of learning as little kids and never recover socially and emotionally.

busing

redistricting

ward systems, etc., etc.

you tend to oversimplify things on occasion.

[eddiecincin1]

Reasons private schools do “better”
1) a large portion of a public school budget is non-classroom spending. And I am not talking bureaucracy, though bureaucracy is also too high. 25% of a public schools budget is for disabled and special needs children. Private schools do not carry this cost and shield children from the reality of the existence of these children. Busing is about 15% of the budget. More now that gas went up.
2) Poaching. Private schools poach good students. Which students are in an honor or AP course is public knowledge. Therefore charters can target these students. When testing time comes you are comparing a weighted pool vs just the avg of the neighborhood. By only getting upper level students a private schools tests scores are artificially high. There is very little basis in reality with the suggestion that the same student would get a different score in a public vs private school.
3) Testing biases. Many private schools do not test poor performing children. There is very little regulation in this area (at least for private schools and its in their interest to cheat here). This has happened at dallas area schools, poor performing children were never characterized as 10th graders an thus no tests or taken out of class the test day, but for the most part public schools test everyone and is therefore unbiased.
4) private money. After private school tuition many parents have to pay for many other cost to keep up a extracurricular type activities and fieldtrip.

A better measure of a school is the change in education. For instance the entering classes reading level compared to the exiting class. But no school will tell you this…

[Hartwell Girl]

Try to sell your story to Dr. Odell Owens. He attended Walnut Hills until he had to transfer to Woodward due to failing a class...did he let the fact that he had to help raise his siblings hold him back from getting a good education and not having anyone convince him he deserved otherwise? Lets get real, its about the child and how much that parent wants them to achieve in life. I believe my son deserves the best and it is my responsibility to make sure he has it.
And my reference to poor is because you refer to it ALL the time...how poor and old this city is. I grew up poor...more so than most people I meet these days, but my mother (single mother of 3) made sure we were at school on time everyday, we were well rested and did our homework with her at the table everynight. It seems people are sometimes quick to point the fingers at the schools or teachers and make excuses for their children so those children understand their parents will get them out of this problem. I was taught you are only responsible for your own actions and without respect and a strong work ethic, you will never get anywhere in this world. I am not saying there are not problems with schools but there are many fine public schools in Cincinnati. And for the record, my son was tested like every other child who takes OAT testing while in elementary school. And can I add that many of his teachers over the years earn about half of what CPS teachers make each year?