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Old 06-09-2014, 08:19 AM
 
87 posts, read 216,287 times
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I enjoy a healthy exchange of opinions rather then a recitation of positivity and politically correct comments. Thus, I thought it might be interesting to share my thoughts on the Queen City. For perspective I will provide some background: I grew up in New York City and was educated in Washington DC and Madison, Wisconsin. After many years of living in Milwaukee, I was compelled to reside (living is too affectively human to use) in Louisville, Kentucky for three years and moved to Cincinnati 6 months ago.

Cincinnati's wonders:
The accessibility of downtown is tremendous. With the Banks, downtown and OTR all within walking distance, I can watch professional sports, eat at dozens of restaurants, view interesting exhibits at world class museums, attend several theatrical productions both regional and national, listen to live jazz, rock & roll, indy, R & B, Bluegrass and Country at a variety of bars & clubs, without ever using my car. Bravo!

The Riverfront Park is beautiful and is being expanded. Countless concerts and events are held continuously during the warm months and these events are safe, fun, and oh so easy.

Cincinnati's restaurants are amazing for this sized city. Other then Chicago and perhaps Minneapolis, no other Midwest city has the variety of sophisticated culinary dining venues as Cincinnati. They are under appreciated.

The University of Cincinnati and Clifton provide the town with just enough funky intellectualism and an international contingent that allows a glimmer of worldliness to sneak through.

The development and gentrification of OTR has provided a youthful vitality to the city that was so needed to off set a legacy of race riots, myopia, and provincialism. The past needs to be let go and the future needs to be grabbed on to. OTR provides a handle and a grip.

There is a surprising amount of diversity in Cincinnati. I cannot attend any event downtown without noticing how integrated the crowds are. I do not see this in Milwaukee, Louisville, Minneapolis, and even in Chicago. The Cincinnati Gay and Lesbian community is involved and has a creative impact on the growth of the city.

The hills and cliffs provide and interesting topography for the city and some of the vistas over the river are so reminiscent of Europe.

The sour side of Cincinnati:
The downtown is dirty and smells. I don't know if it's caused by too much use of coal or the lack of green grass for the canine population to release themselves on, but the sidewalks, streets, and many of the buildings are stained and in need of repair. It is not aesthetically pleasing. For a city in such a naturally beautiful setting, it looks downright seedy and decrepit.

What is with the proliferation of street people? In addition, most of the street people and the purportedly homeless do not look needy. Where do they come from and why Cincinnati? These folks do not provide a salubrious ambiance to downtown.

Retail locations are often empty and the higher end businesses are leaving downtown. Shoppers do not support downtown Cincinnati and malls are still the preferred mode of shopping.

There is a lack of higher end condos to live in downtown. Most of the new building will be apartments. Empty nester baby boomers, looking to vacate the suburbs and move downtown, do not have any choices after selling the home they raised their children in.

The people still tend to be rather cliquish and provincial. Many people who live in Cincinnati grew up here, and hold on to their friends from high school. Newcomers have a difficult time making friends and finding connections.

The political power base is too old and entrenched in an antediluvian mind set. New, younger and hipper leadership is needed to help push Cincinnati onward and upward to the urbane levels Portland, Denver, and Austin have obtained.

A low tax base means poor schools and no money to improve and maintain parks, streets, and public spaces. I used to complain about the high taxes in Wisconsin and Minnesota, but after living in Kentucky and Ohio, I appreciate how the high taxes added to the quality of life.

The proximity of Kentucky and Appalachia have a depressingly negative effect on Cincinnati. Rather then looking to the North for sophistication and tolerance, too often the city takes its cues from "across the river." Three years of living in the nightmare called Louisville taught me what poor education, lack of a work ethic, entrenched social stratification, oligarchical control, and myopia can do to a place. It isn't pretty and I didn't know the Third World existed in America. Do not be fooled by visits to Kentucky for a short vacation. The insidious aspects of narrow minds and parochialism cannot be held in check and sometimes, Cincinnati has a whiff of this ugliness.

In summation, Cincinnati has the opportunity to be one of the great cities of America, joining the ranks of the best places to live such as Austin, Portland, Seattle, Boston, San Diego, Denver etc. I enjoy living here. Yet, there is so much more to do and the people here need to throw off the cloak of the past and look to the future. The stuffy oligarchy needs to make room for new younger leadership and recruiting fresh investment is vital to Cincinnati's growth. This is not your older brother's city anymore and provincialism is no longer in vogue.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:07 AM
 
268 posts, read 370,033 times
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As a couple who live up the road (in Wilmington) and planning a city move, my wife and I say thanks for your insights - it's helpful to have an honest opinion versus hollow platitudes from advertising materials.

I'm with you on the taxes, having lived in Minneapolis and having benefited from things like neighborhood walking trails, litter collection, and well-funded arts projects.

Thanks again for your input.
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Old 06-09-2014, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Shaker Heights, OH
5,266 posts, read 5,186,644 times
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It's amazing to me how people tend to always vote for politicians who cut taxes...yet get upset w/ lack of services...I agree...I'd love to see taxes raised in this state so we can actually create a much higher quality of life for everyone.

Completely agree too about the lack of actual condos in downtown or OTR...all or most of the projects going on or in the pipeline are apartments...one of the towers should condos, not apartments.
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Old 06-09-2014, 10:43 AM
 
465 posts, read 655,446 times
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As someone who also moved here from larger (Los Angeles) or hipper (Burlington, VT, Denver, CO) cities, I can see where you're coming from on a lot of these points. Culturally, Cincinnati is so far ahead of other similarly sized cities that it can sometimes be comparable to the country's large urban centers in the quality and depth of its arts, theater and music offerings, and it does this in a compact space. At the same time, there's what we've dubbed "Cincin-apathy" when it comes to fixing certain things that should be fairly easy, cost effective and straight forward. There's also often a lack of long term vision or awareness of current trends (i.e. the city's recently announced plans for an auto-centric innovation corridor Uptown go directly against what most of the country's most innovative companies would want to associate themselves with) that make some ideas seem backward rather than forward thinking. I see homelessness as a symptom of a larger social safety net issue in the city, and this as an effect of the low tax base you cite. The aesthetics of buildings is a strange statement, I feel, as the city is comparable to other old east coast cities in this regard, especially Philly, Montreal and even New York. They all have many dirty buildings, they all have strange smells downtown (L.A. had a lot of funny smells too, which made rain such a happy event there.) It's just part of city living, sometimes. The smells could be made better by easing the licensing on street food vendors, but the nice restaurants you mention are opposed to this.

The current apartment focus and lack of condos or other actual real estate available is a problem, and an effect of the timing of this current real estate boom and the restricted credit conditions it's taking place in. The market will correct itself at some point, but that's probably small solace to those looking right now.

The lack of quality downtown retail, street level shopping is also definitely holding the city back.

The schools are already miles ahead of where they were when I first moved here and seem to be moving the right direction. When I first got here, it seemed like it was basically Walnut Hills and a so-so SCPA that the city could be proud of, now it seems there are more public schools that are performing at fairly high levels, even though there's still a ways to go on that front.

There is a lot of investment money coming to the MSA lately, more than any city in the Midwest besides Chicago and Minneapolis/St. Paul in the last quarter, so the city in many ways seems on the right track, I think largely through the efforts of transplants though, as it's often very difficult to get the people who have been here all their lives to see the city as able to improve and take those steps to make it a vital place.
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Old 06-09-2014, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,713,346 times
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enofile ...

A very good synopsis on your living experiences in downtown Cincinnati. You sound enthusiastic in some areas, so-so in others, and downright why can't they make this go away in others. I guess that is to be expected. I can't conceive of any city being so perfect it doesn't have things to dislike.

I had some good times in Seattle, but wouldn't want to live there. All the rain, no thanks. Didn't care for downtown at all, crammed between the bay and the hills. I made many trips to Seattle, and went downtown maybe twice, once to make the obligatory trip up the Space Needle.
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Old 06-09-2014, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati, OH
148 posts, read 212,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enofile View Post
The development and gentrification of OTR has provided a youthful vitality to the city that was so needed ...
I'm glad we (Cincy) don't have the resistance to gentrification that ahem NYC has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enofile View Post
What is with the proliferation of street people? In addition, most of the street people and the purportedly homeless do not look needy. Where do they come from and why Cincinnati?
I agree. What's your gut tell you about where they come from and why they're here? That's usually where I start. Personally, I hope Cincy's not an out-of-town hideout for gangstas from Detroit, Jersey, etc. coz we don't need that layer, to wit the Taste-of-Cincy assault looked non-local to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enofile View Post
Retail locations are often empty and the higher end businesses are leaving downtown. Shoppers do not support downtown Cincinnati and malls are still the preferred mode of shopping.
Do you think it's possible? Any ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by enofile View Post
There is a lack of higher end condos to live in downtown. Most of the new building will be apartments.
Why is that? I know little of real estate, but plenty about following the money, so I'll understand any money-related or self interest answer. Thanks.
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:30 PM
 
465 posts, read 655,446 times
Reputation: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thgencincy View Post
Why is that? I know little of real estate, but plenty about following the money, so I'll understand any money-related or self interest answer. Thanks.
The condo question really has just the basic economic answer that developers are seeing a lot more profit from apartments. There's not enough condo demand for two reasons: first, since the housing bubble burst buyers remain skeptical of putting money into a condo they fear could go underwater and second, there aren't as many qualified buyers because banks have tightened lending standards at the same time savings rates among the young remain very low. Since Cincinnati real estate remains relatively cheap compared to the rest of the country, but downtown Cincinnati rental costs are closer to the national average, it's a pretty easy decision to make for the developers.
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:36 PM
 
87 posts, read 216,287 times
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To reply do all your erudite responses:

I am willing to pay my share of taxes if it helps to improve the schools and provides a better standard of life for all.

It will be difficult to purchase something in Cincinnati unless some developer has private financing and can build in downtown. What I don't comprehend is how developers find the funds to construct condominium buildings in OTR.

The homeless issue is understandable in a broader context, but what confuses me is why the "franchised" street folks decide to "bus" to Cincinnati? What do they find here that they can't get in other cities. Are the citizens of the Queen City that more generous?

It is with great objectivity that I call Cincinnati grungy and odiferous. After sensing this, I tuned into the dirt and smells of other cities when I was traveling. There is no doubt in my mind that the sidewalks, buildings, lamp posts, signage etc. need a power wash. Even the wonderful pedestrian comforts lining the Riverfront need a good scrub. I have compared Cincinnati's **** and span to Milwaukee, New York, Minneapolis, and Seattle in the past three months, and I must write that it just isn't keeping up. The smells are not from street vendors, trust me. My olfactory senses are reminded of Mumbai when I stroll up Vine from Fourth Street to OTR.

There is no perfect city, but if I had a great deal more money, there are other cities that provide a higher quality of life and a lifestyle that meets my specific needs.
Examples are Boston, Washington D.C., San Diego, Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Vancouver, Miami Toronto, Denver and New York. I do believe Cincinnati has the potential to come close to this urbane ideal. I do not include San Francisco as I find the city too smug and L.A. which is a bit superficial for my personality. Other Midwestern cities lack certain aspects of Cincinnati that gives Cincinnati a clear advantage in becoming something special. Minneapolis lacks a certain urbane sophistication and loves its outdoorsy image. In a way, it is similar to Seattle and Portland, but those two cities mitigate their earthiness with a West Coast vibe and a Northwest cool. Milwaukee and Pittsburgh take pride in being working class and down to earth, which disallows a certain creative experimentation that is often called being "hip." Detroit, Cleveland, and in my opinion St Louis, are mired in an industrial legacy that thwarts attempts to economically support an urbane vibe. Kansas City seems too connected to the Planes and Prairies to ever reach a certain sophistication, but I must admit I am not familiar with the city. Again, this is all mentioned to foster discussion and thought. By no means do I think I have the answers. Thanks.
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Old 06-09-2014, 07:56 PM
 
465 posts, read 655,446 times
Reputation: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by enofile View Post
It is with great objectivity that I call Cincinnati grungy and odiferous. After sensing this, I tuned into the dirt and smells of other cities when I was traveling. There is no doubt in my mind that the sidewalks, buildings, lamp posts, signage etc. need a power wash. Even the wonderful pedestrian comforts lining the Riverfront need a good scrub. I have compared Cincinnati's **** and span to Milwaukee, New York, Minneapolis, and Seattle in the past three months, and I must write that it just isn't keeping up. The smells are not from street vendors, trust me. My olfactory senses are reminded of Mumbai when I stroll up Vine from Fourth Street to OTR.

There is no perfect city, but if I had a great deal more money, there are other cities that provide a higher quality of life and a lifestyle that meets my specific needs.
Examples are Boston, Washington D.C., San Diego, Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Vancouver, Miami Toronto, Denver and New York. I do believe Cincinnati has the potential to come close to this urbane ideal. I do not include San Francisco as I find the city too smug and L.A. which is a bit superficial for my personality. Other Midwestern cities lack certain aspects of Cincinnati that gives Cincinnati a clear advantage in becoming something special. Minneapolis lacks a certain urbane sophistication and loves its outdoorsy image. In a way, it is similar to Seattle and Portland, but those two cities mitigate their earthiness with a West Coast vibe and a Northwest cool. Milwaukee and Pittsburgh take pride in being working class and down to earth, which disallows a certain creative experimentation that is often called being "hip." Detroit, Cleveland, and in my opinion St Louis, are mired in an industrial legacy that thwarts attempts to economically support an urbane vibe. Kansas City seems too connected to the Planes and Prairies to ever reach a certain sophistication, but I must admit I am not familiar with the city. Again, this is all mentioned to foster discussion and thought. By no means do I think I have the answers. Thanks.
First, I don't think this can actually be described as objective when it comes to the general grit or pretty much any of the arguments. It's well thought and certainly verbose subjectivity, but subjectivity nonetheless. As an example, when I was in Milwaukee last year, I made the mistake of sitting on a bench that was dirty enough to mark my clothes, whereas this past weekend, it was all clean benches by the river, albeit one close enough to somebody lighting a joint to not make it the most enjoyable experience (it did remind both me and my visiting friend from Seattle of our "home" states.)

On that subject, I also wanted to clarify that I was saying Cincinnati's relative lack of street vendors is not helping the way the city smells. Outside of Fountain Square and near Servaati on Court St., there really are no places where food scents can be found downtown, instead you get varying levels of typical city smells, from garbage to urine to the aforementioned waft of marijuana smoke to what have you. This is something I was trying to express agreement with you about.

Given your tastes I find it a bit ironic actually that you find San Fran smug, but think NYC, Boston and D.C. are okay. Those are all extremely smug cities in my experience, with S.F. the least smug of the four (that's probably subjective.) Those and the other cities on your list I think are fine choices, though, and I personally could be happy living in any of them. Also, I guess I'm not sure why Denver qualifies for you as while I love it as my birthplace and being a generally cool city, it does exhibit the same traits you ascribe to Minneapolis (lack of sophistication and outdoorsy image) and doesn't have as much of that west coast vibe.

Finally, just fyi, people who say that Los Angeles is superficial are almost universally white, and/or have only come in contact with the elite white minority there, often the West Siders who fit that description, or some in the artsy neighborhoods around Los Feliz or Silverlake. Or maybe they've only visited Disneyland. Or maybe they're just repeating what others have told them. The rest of the city, which is predominantly Latino, but is truly international, lacks that superficial quality and actually makes it an interesting and diverse place to live.
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Old 06-09-2014, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,713,346 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by enofile View Post
To reply do all your erudite responses:

I am willing to pay my share of taxes if it helps to improve the schools and provides a better standard of life for all.

It will be difficult to purchase something in Cincinnati unless some developer has private financing and can build in downtown. What I don't comprehend is how developers find the funds to construct condominium buildings in OTR.

The homeless issue is understandable in a broader context, but what confuses me is why the "franchised" street folks decide to "bus" to Cincinnati? What do they find here that they can't get in other cities. Are the citizens of the Queen City that more generous?

It is with great objectivity that I call Cincinnati grungy and odiferous. After sensing this, I tuned into the dirt and smells of other cities when I was traveling. There is no doubt in my mind that the sidewalks, buildings, lamp posts, signage etc. need a power wash. Even the wonderful pedestrian comforts lining the Riverfront need a good scrub. I have compared Cincinnati's **** and span to Milwaukee, New York, Minneapolis, and Seattle in the past three months, and I must write that it just isn't keeping up. The smells are not from street vendors, trust me. My olfactory senses are reminded of Mumbai when I stroll up Vine from Fourth Street to OTR.

There is no perfect city, but if I had a great deal more money, there are other cities that provide a higher quality of life and a lifestyle that meets my specific needs.
Examples are Boston, Washington D.C., San Diego, Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Vancouver, Miami Toronto, Denver and New York. I do believe Cincinnati has the potential to come close to this urbane ideal. I do not include San Francisco as I find the city too smug and L.A. which is a bit superficial for my personality. Other Midwestern cities lack certain aspects of Cincinnati that gives Cincinnati a clear advantage in becoming something special. Minneapolis lacks a certain urbane sophistication and loves its outdoorsy image. In a way, it is similar to Seattle and Portland, but those two cities mitigate their earthiness with a West Coast vibe and a Northwest cool. Milwaukee and Pittsburgh take pride in being working class and down to earth, which disallows a certain creative experimentation that is often called being "hip." Detroit, Cleveland, and in my opinion St Louis, are mired in an industrial legacy that thwarts attempts to economically support an urbane vibe. Kansas City seems too connected to the Planes and Prairies to ever reach a certain sophistication, but I must admit I am not familiar with the city. Again, this is all mentioned to foster discussion and thought. By no means do I think I have the answers. Thanks.
I have visited all of the cities you mentioned during my working career, most of them multiple times.
Quite frankly I never encountered anything which captured my cultural interests to induce me to move from Cincinnati to there. In fact I saw little difference other than some weather, and I hate warm weather year around. Still haven't seen anything calling me to move there. Phoenix is an oven, Denver is an over-gown ski resort, San Diego smells like fish everywhere, etc.

Cincinnati has been improving its downtown, by which most city's are measured. Not my measurement but seems to be the popular measurement, particularly by the new urbanists.

What do you know, they are not building condos fast enough to house the retiring baby-boomers. Most of them have been so preoccupied with demonstrating their material wealth they probably can't afford a condo anyway, everything was mortgaged to the hilt.
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