Cabela's a possibility in WestChester (Cincinnati, Dayton: 2014, houses, to buy)

[ram2]

Originally Posted by OHKID

This is not going to be like Dundee MI or Hammond IN where people drive 3-4 hours just to go to Cabela's for the experience of it. The experience would be more equitable to going to the local Macy's.

People do not drive 4 hours to go to Cabelas in Hammond. That store catches all of the Chicago traffic.

[kjbrill]

While driving through Missouri on the way to Fort Sill in Lawton, OK, I have stopped at the original Bass Pro Shops in Springfield several times. I have to get there early and we usually have to spend the night in the next town prior to the OK border because I spend so much time at Bass Pro. That original store is multiple buildings as they have added on and added on again.

[flashes1]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

While driving through Missouri on the way to Fort Sill in Lawton, OK, I have stopped at the original Bass Pro Shops in Springfield several times. I have to get there early and we usually have to spend the night in the next town prior to the OK border because I spend so much time at Bass Pro. That original store is multiple buildings as they have added on and added on again.

Given the source you have to take it with a grain of salt, but as of 5 years ago, Bass Pro management claimed that store was Missouri's number one tourist attraction by number of patrons.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by flashes1

Given the source you have to take it with a grain of salt, but as of 5 years ago, Bass Pro management claimed that store was Missouri's number one tourist attraction by number of patrons.

And I would certainly have to agree with them. The number of tour buses parked around the store is phenomenal. Also remember, it is on the road to Branson Missouri, a great attraction in itself. I believe most of the tour buses stop at Bass Pro on their way to Branson, and again on their way back. The only thing I have ever bought there has been winter grade clothes. They carry some top grade winter jackets. We were always passing through in cold weather, Thanksgiving, Christmas, up to Easter to visit the kids at Fort Sill.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by RustBeltOptimist

I have mixed sentiments about it and stores like this too. These stores have smaller multipliers (meaning of every dollar spent at the store and used in getting to the store, less subsequently gets circulated back into the local economy than smaller or locally owned outfits) but they do have some cache among many people (my dad is a big fan) and it's still likely a net plus for the region and city's economy for right now. The other trouble is that inevitably some of these buildings and massive parking lots will get left empty in a subsequent economic downturn, and then become major redevelopment conundrums a couple of decades down the road. It's a lot trickier to repurpose something like this than a typical mixed use development.

Please describe to me a typical mixed use development, as frankly I have no idea what they look lke. Secondly I don't know why they are so attractive. If they match my image it is just when part of it is empty not all of it is empty. That may give it the illusion of occupany, but not really. I just dom't see where partial occupancy is all that more attractive than total occupany.

[Briolat21]

Re: mixed use developments

at one extreme, I think you could consider "The Greene" (in BeaverCreek) a mixed use development, because it has both shops/housing/restaurants - and all were planned from the beginning.

So its kind of mimicking what happened organically in early municipalities - where storeowners may have lived over their storefronts (or rented the space) and things were located close together.

A lot of folks are concerned that there will be a sort of post-apocalyptic future where the parking lots and "big-box" stores of the suburbs will be abandoned and all of humanity will cluster together without cars and those in the non-walkable 'burbs will be cut-off from any ability to gather food or survive.

Of course if that happens (hello peak oil enthusiasts!) there will really be a lot bigger problems than just "the suburbs were unsustainable" - as petroleum is a necessary ingredient in just about all aspects of modern life (including a number of medical supplies). So humanity is going to have a lot bigger problems than just declining property values in the 'burbs and some empty parking lots.

[motorman]

^ As you said--this post oil, apocalyptic future is materializing not in the distant future, but right now--and it does look grim. (Don't think so? Then just view today's Middle Eastern news followed up by a review of Mad Max and The Road Warrior.)

[Briolat21]

If the preppers are right, and peak oil occurs with a bang (likely a nuclear warhead as countries engage in a world war over declining resources) and not a whimper (gradual transition to alternative energy resources, no one much cares about the last drop of Oil, not even BP who long ago started investing in solar/wind/etc..) - then I'm pretty sure that none of us are going to be living the lives we predicted, and the fact that you're in a walkable out-of-supplies downtown will be just as hard for you as my being in a less-walkable out-of-supplies suburb is on me.

Or the water wars (If petroleum is necessary to "modern" life, Water is necessary to life itself - and we're sitting on a large stockpile within the great lakes, etc..) will lead to chaos and major strife within the United States as thirsty western/southern states eye their well watered neighbors with unfettered avarice - leading to martial law/rationing/etc.. (again, aside from my lawn turning brown, which I don't care about - city and suburban dwellers will be in the same thirsty boat) until of course there's eventual invasion by even more thirsty countries.

But -more than likely the lab manufactured avian flu will likely wipe us out long before Peak Oil or Water scarcity really has a chance to become a major lifestyle problem.

[RustBeltOptimist]

I'm not a peak oil advocate, but I am an advocate of preparing development as if you expect it to last a century or more, and understanding how it could shift in use over time. With some buildings, this is pretty simple: a house pretty much stays a house and as long as it's holding up it can always be used as a house. With commercial development, you have to think about what else a building could be a lot more. A big box store is kind of like a house in that it can only be used for that one purpose, and all other uses see such a major drop in utility that make it not worth moving in to that space. Even smaller department or grocery stores have this problem but to a lesser degree. It took almost two decades of the Kennedy Heights Kroger sitting empty before a plan was put into place to convert it into a arts/community center and it's not ideally suited for those uses, either. This despite it being in a reasonably attractive neighborhood.

As you've already cited, there's a lot of competition for Cabela's already planned, and when development starts to move away from West Chester to the next hot location, there will be winners and losers and some of these spaces will wind up empty. It's a huge cost to remove the structures, so they become empty shells on empty parking lots, tanking the real estate values of all those nearby McMansions and contributing to a downward economic spiral similar to what we're seeing just south of there with the Tri-County Mall and Cincinnati Mills area.

Mixed use to me means that the space could easily and quickly be re-purposed, so it's not going to stay empty as long, and it doesn't cost as much to get it ready for a new employer that may want to move in to the area.

[Briolat21]

RBO:

I agree, the problem with being in a "hot" area, is that it may not always be hot. Our inner cities are an obvious testament to that, as they fell out of favor for decades, before becoming hot/trendy again more recently.

Obviously - the ring communities - face these same issues - and many have faced the same problems as our inner cities, with subsequent waves of migration further out.

Detroit is obvioulsy a huge model for that, as is Chicago. (the Cinci metro area is really still pretty geographically compact).

So the challenge is for the regional authorities (in this case Westchester Twp gov't) to carefully manage their areas to try to prevent/ameliorate any future "loss of trendiness".

Could WC's retail be the next Cincinnati Mills in 40 years? Sure. Could WC be a hub of a newly strengthened Cinci/Dayton corridor? Sure. No one knows which way the wind will blow, and so you have to hope that your elected officials are working hard to avoid the less favorable possibilities.

And while Tri-County is clearly not great at the moment, there's a huge population base in the area and Kemper is always hopping. I think you could revitalize TriCounty if you got the right developer.

Cincinnati Mills / Forest Fair on the other hand .. I'm not sure that even the savviest developer could save it. Its too far out (among other things) - we all know that much of Cinci doesn't look that far west of 75 for anything. (TriCounty is only 1 exit off 75, making it much more accessible).