Why is Cincinnati so poor? (Hamilton, Blue Ash: disposal, live in, zoning)

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by OHKID

It's not that the city is poor, it's just that the city in recent years has been ACTING exceptionally poor.

If anyone has a cheap friend, you get where I was coming from in the OP in relation to the city. I am equating Cincinnati to the guy who always bums a dollar, even though they have $100 in their pocket. That's what I was talking about.

There is definitely a scenario in which Cincy is poor. It needs to quit acting like a city of 500,000 people when it is only 60% of that. And the population left in the City borders is less affluent than what left. So budgets must be adjusted accordingly. This has been the failure to recognize.

[Zen_master]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Explore it all they want, but those separate munincipalities which have existed in Hamilton County for eons are not about to cede their identify to Cincinnati. There is no incentive to do so. Cincinnati will just drain their resources and give them nothing back in return.

Take a look at Louisville. There are a handful of communities that maintained their city status and did not get absorbed into the Louisville-Jefferson County government. It would be prudent to broach the subject with communities that are surrounded by the City of Cincinnati such as Norwood and St. Bernard as well as perhaps small cities on the edge of Cincinnati such as Fairfax and Golf Manor. I will also add that any townships being served by the Hamilton County Sherriffs Dept. would be ripe for annexation into the city-county government. Consolidation of the police force would relieve administrative overhead.

[WILWRadio]

Consolidating local governments may not be in the best interest of the suburbs. Indianapolis has some serious problems such as snow removal in the winter and violent crime. This is a case where it is probable the quality of life in the suburbs that get absorbed will deteriorate and the city will not see much in the way of improvements in its weak areas.

[RustBeltOptimist]

Originally Posted by Zen_master

Take a look at Louisville. There are a handful of communities that maintained their city status and did not get absorbed into the Louisville-Jefferson County government. It would be prudent to broach the subject with communities that are surrounded by the City of Cincinnati such as Norwood and St. Bernard as well as perhaps small cities on the edge of Cincinnati such as Fairfax and Golf Manor. I will also add that any townships being served by the Hamilton County Sherriffs Dept. would be ripe for annexation into the city-county government. Consolidation of the police force would relieve administrative overhead.

Norwood and St. Bernard are less likely to be open to merging with the city than Elmwood Place, which needs rescuing as much as Cincinnati does. Arlington Heights probably does too, but the machine that operates that "city" is probably a bit less keen on an outside entity coming in and cutting all the waste and reviewing the books and crony hires that go on there.

Otherwise, the city doesn't have much leverage with the incorporated areas and as WILW radio points out, there's no real incentive for them to enter the city at the moment. If the city gets its financial house in order first and starts growing faster that could change, but right now their content to stay separate. Some internal solutions have to be figured out before the city can start looking to the outside for help.

[kjbrill]

What is to be gained by the City annexing places like Elmwood Place which need rescuing as much as it does? That just further dilutes the gene pool.

I still feel what started this whole discussion, the lack of money to rebuild MH and UT is best addressed by a specific property tax aimed at cultural institution maintenance. Not a sales tax, a property tax. The surrounding counties should be requested to join such a specific tax. As I have stated, I foresee a problem with people in northern Butler and Warren counties, who do not feel specific ties to Cincinnati to resist a tax paying for Cincinnati cultural institutions. What I don't know is the legality of only taxing those townships which are considered part of the Cincinnati MSA.

And the proceeds from such a tax should be administered by a separate entity from the City, Hamilton Co., or any of the other counties. The tax should be something like a 5-year levy. At the end of 5 years it would require renewal. This would give the citizens the opportunity to express whether they felt they were getting their moneys worth.

Yes the surrounding counties should be contributing more to the support of the cultural institutions in Cincinnati. But rather than complaining they don't, give them a plan they can live with and sell to their residents.

[RustBeltOptimist]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

What is to be gained by the City annexing places like Elmwood Place which need rescuing as much as it does? That just further dilutes the gene pool.

I still feel what started this whole discussion, the lack of money to rebuild MH and UT is best addressed by a specific property tax aimed at cultural institution maintenance. Not a sales tax, a property tax. The surrounding counties should be requested to join such a specific tax. As I have stated, I foresee a problem with people in northern Butler and Warren counties, who do not feel specific ties to Cincinnati to resist a tax paying for Cincinnati cultural institutions. What I don't know is the legality of only taxing those townships which are considered part of the Cincinnati MSA.

And the proceeds from such a tax should be administered by a separate entity from the City, Hamilton Co., or any of the other counties. The tax should be something like a 5-year levy. At the end of 5 years it would require renewal. This would give the citizens the opportunity to express whether they felt they were getting their moneys worth.

Yes the surrounding counties should be contributing more to the support of the cultural institutions in Cincinnati. But rather than complaining they don't, give them a plan they can live with and sell to their residents.

Apparently you didn't get my meaning. By pointing out Elmwood Place's issues as the only place Cincy could annex right now, I'm saying it's unwise. I'm not advocating at all an annexation of anything at this point, and am pretty much in agreement with what you've just put up above.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by RustBeltOptimist

Apparently you didn't get my meaning. By pointing out Elmwood Place's issues as the only place Cincy could annex right now, I'm saying it's unwise. I'm not advocating at all an annexation of anything at this point, and am pretty much in agreement with what you've just put up above.

Oh I got your meaning and was not directing my remarks at you.

I just feel it is time to aim at specific issues rather than wondering all over the place relative to Cincinnati's financial status. One of those specific issues is saving MH and UT. And yes, they are regional treasures. So organize a campaign to have residents of the adjacent counties partiipate in a property tax campaign to benefit these specific two institutions. Don't try to stretch it into solving everything. Give the residents of Greater Cincinnati a chance to say yes we are behind these two institutions and willing to be taxed to save them. That would be a major step forward in City suburban relations.

[WILWRadio]

It seems to me that annexation often leads to a decline in the standard of living of the communities taken by a city that takes in surrounding suburbs. That sure seems to be the case with Indianapolis.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

It seems to me that annexation often leads to a decline in the standard of living of the communities taken by a city that takes in surrounding suburbs. That sure seems to be the case with Indianapolis.

Don't worry, I think the municipalities surrounding Cincinnati are smarter than to fall for that ploy. Those touting to combine all of Hamilton Co. with Cincy to once again be an instant large city must be smoking some of that marijuana they just legalized in Washington.

The majority of the suburbs surrounding Cincinnati are doing better than the City. So tell me one reason why they would want to be annexed to Cincinnati. It is Cincinnati coming with their hat in their hand, not the other way around.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Don't worry, I think the municipalities surrounding Cincinnati are smarter than to fall for that ploy. Those touting to combine all of Hamilton Co. with Cincy to once again be an instant large city must be smoking some of that marijuana they just legalized in Washington.

The majority of the suburbs surrounding Cincinnati are doing better than the City. So tell me one reason why they would want to be annexed to Cincinnati. It is Cincinnati coming with their hat in their hand, not the other way around.

Essentially when a city annexes surrounding communities they are simply exporting the many of the worst elements of the city into the suburbs that have been annexed. I figure that most of the suburbs of Cincinnati would rather retain autonomy over their communities rather than give up the right to self govern.