Safe Urban Living (Cincinnati, Norwood, Avon: crime, credit, houses)

[davidjd]

Yes, I have searched the forum. I found the boundaries of certain neighborhoods and their desirability/safety to be confusing. I live in Grosse Pointe Farms, MI, which is a suburb of Detroit that is more urban. I want a larger historic house in a nice urban neighborhood. I'm going to be working Downtown and I would like to keep it under 30 minutes. I can go up to 1,000,000 and I want to buy. I want it to be a historic single family home with at least 4 bed and 3 bath and 2,500 Sq. Ft.. I want a nice urban neighborhood that I will feel comfortable in. Somewhere where a family can live. I want nice, older, and historic architecture. I want a neighborhood where a Jewish family like mine would feel comfortable but other than that diversity isn't a huge deal for me. Safety is very important to me. I understand how crime works and take precautions, though. Growing up in Detroit taught me that. For my kids (2 girls 13 (future 8th Grader) and 14 (future Freshman) I want a nice Catholic private school. Somewhere that is more progressive but not totally off the wall. Somewhere where a Jewish student would feel fine. My kids went to a Catholic school in GP that was like that and we loved it. One question, Is there a difference between Eastside Catholics and Westside Catholics? It seems like there is a big divide there. I've seen houses in North Avondale that look really nice. Is that a safe area? I looked it up and it didn't seem so. What is the difference between it and Avondale?

Thanks,
David

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by davidjd

Yes, I have searched the forum. I found the boundaries of certain neighborhoods and their desirability/safety to be confusing. I live in Grosse Pointe Farms, MI, which is a suburb of Detroit that is more urban. I want a larger historic house in a nice urban neighborhood. I'm going to be working Downtown and I would like to keep it under 30 minutes. I can go up to 1,000,000 and I want to buy. I want it to be a historic single family home with at least 4 bed and 3 bath and 2,500 Sq. Ft.. I want a nice urban neighborhood that I will feel comfortable in. Somewhere where a family can live. I want nice, older, and historic architecture. I want a neighborhood where a Jewish family like mine would feel comfortable but other than that diversity isn't a huge deal for me. Safety is very important to me. I understand how crime works and take precautions, though. Growing up in Detroit taught me that. For my kids (2 girls 13 (future 8th Grader) and 14 (future Freshman) I want a nice Catholic private school. Somewhere that is more progressive but not totally off the wall. Somewhere where a Jewish student would feel fine. My kids went to a Catholic school in GP that was like that and we loved it. One question, Is there a difference between Eastside Catholics and Westside Catholics? It seems like there is a big divide there. I've seen houses in North Avondale that look really nice. Is that a safe area? I looked it up and it didn't seem so. What is the difference between it and Avondale?

Thanks,
David

The one thing to understand is the east/west divide in Cincinnati to begin with. It is not just the Catholics, it is everybody.

From your description of a historical type home there is only one place I would concentrate on, Hyde Park. Yes there are other areas which have large historical homes such as Paddock Hills, but if you want some assurance you can get your investment back stick with Hyde Park. Cincinnati has a large number of parochial schools, should be no problem locating one for your children.

When the Jewish families vacated Avondale, they vacated it. Most of them fled north to Amberley Village, a nice place but not historic at all. North Avondale has simply held out longer. I think the reason was a lot of doctors lived there who just didn't want to move that far away from pill-hill (the hospital area). May be why Paddock Hills has hung out also.

[SWOH]

Since you state your budget is up to $1 mil, I'd really be looking into Hyde Park, Columbia Tusculum, Mt. Adams and Clifton Gaslight (possibly). If you are willing to look across the river, Covington has some stunning houses near the Licking River in that range.

I would not spend near $1 mil in Avondale. $100k? Maybe. Definitely not over that though. There is potential in Avondale, but not $1 mil potential. If you did want to do a renovation, I would look at the West End or OTR north of Liberty instead. Getting a decent ROI on your $1 mil investment would be close to a sure bet.

[t45209]

If I may, I'd have to say that your concerns about being comfortable from a religious/cultural and safety standpoint are overblown. As a Jewish family, you'd blend in just about anywhere in Cincinnati, particularly in the neighborhoods that you can afford. Second, anywhere that you would spend $1 million in Cincinnati would not have a safety concern, and there are few neighborhoods even at other levels where your Detroit experience would compare to Cincinnati. This is simply not an unsafe city.

The above recommendations I would mostly agree with, although I would give more credit to Clifton Gaslight. It's certainly more urban than Hyde Park and with the student population around UC, you have a bit more hubbub, but you'll have far more to choose from in terms of fabulous old houses.

The dismissive comment above about Avondale overlooks the North Avondale neighborhood, with fabulous Victorian and Edwardian mansions. Granted, this is a pocket bordered by some rough areas of town on the north and south (Bond Hill and Avondale proper) and more peaceful if less prosperous areas to the east and west (Xavier University/Norwood and St. Bernard), but I know many people who have lived in North Avondale with families and without who have been quite happy and unmolested there. The price point for these homes has a wide range, depending on whether it's been renovated or not. You could pick one up for a relative song if you are into rehabbing, but for a move-in 6,000 sq ft mansion, the market price is about $400,000-$800,000. The prices are lower than Hyde Park and Clifton because of the surrounding areas and the isolation of this urban oasis, but the homes and the people who live in them are very nice. As noted above, historically, this was an area with a significant Jewish population.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by OHKID

Since you state your budget is up to $1 mil, I'd really be looking into Hyde Park, Columbia Tusculum, Mt. Adams and Clifton Gaslight (possibly). If you are willing to look across the river, Covington has some stunning houses near the Licking River in that range.

I would not spend near $1 mil in Avondale. $100k? Maybe. Definitely not over that though. There is potential in Avondale, but not $1 mil potential. If you did want to do a renovation, I would look at the West End or OTR north of Liberty instead. Getting a decent ROI on your $1 mil investment would be close to a sure bet.

This^^^


North Avondale is a collection of houses looking for a neighborhood. There is nowhere I would send a child on a bike beyond the end of the driveway. Nowhere to shop, nowhere to get your stuff fixed. No safe place to play or walk, or run. Nowhere to eat out. Nothing but a handful of lovely turn of the century houses in a wasteland. An architecture professor or a hermit could consider it, but not a family with a daily life.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

North Avondale is a collection of houses looking for a neighborhood. There is nowhere I would send a child on a bike beyond the end of the driveway. Nowhere to shop, nowhere to get your stuff fixed. No safe place to play or walk, or run. Nowhere to eat out. Nothing but a handful of lovely turn of the century houses in a wasteland. An architecture professor or a hermit could consider it, but not a family with a daily life.

Well said, some lovely old homes in a wasteland. Certainly not a place for a family. Other than the homes simply nothing there.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

This^^^


North Avondale is a collection of houses looking for a neighborhood. There is nowhere I would send a child on a bike beyond the end of the driveway. Nowhere to shop, nowhere to get your stuff fixed. No safe place to play or walk, or run. Nowhere to eat out. Nothing but a handful of lovely turn of the century houses in a wasteland. An architecture professor or a hermit could consider it, but not a family with a daily life.

^blink^
^blink^

what year is this?

it's nice to see you back, Wilson

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by progmac

^blink^
^blink^

what year is this?

it's nice to see you back, Wilson

Why, thank you. Its nice to be back.

Seems like we have the same problems as we did several years ago. The more things change, the more they remain the same!

[Briolat21]

OP -

I'm from St. Clair Shores (MI) originally. My mother went to Grosse Pt South (in the '40s).

So I have a decent familiarity with the Farms where you currently live.

If you are looking for something similar here, I agree that Hyde Park is your best bet. In fact when I'm driving down there, I've commented to my companions that HP feels very much like the Pointes back home in Michigan.

Lots of walkers/joggers on the sidewalks. Bistros within walking distance. Older historic homes.

There may be some other areas within the city that have some nice houses (as Wilson said - a collection of houses looking for a neighborhood) - but few areas will have the overall cohesiveness of atmosphere that you'll get in Hyde Park. Too much of Cincinnati is 2 or 3 good steets, surrounded by many "less good" streets, with another couple good streets up ahead. Locals seem to find that ordinary and are used to it. My husband and I found it very disconcerting (we're used to a neighborhood is either "good" (i.e. safe) or "not" (i.e. not very safe)). My guess is you'd also find it disquieting to turn a corner and realize you were in an area very different from the one you'd just left, though you'd crossed no visible boundary.

When you get a moment - come down for a weeked and take a look around. Its only a 4.5+ hour drive (I've driven it a bunch of times!) - straight down I-75.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

Why, thank you. Its nice to be back.

Seems like we have the same problems as we did several years ago. The more things change, the more they remain the same!

Some areas have made significant progress, OTR south of Liberty being the most notable. The downtown core has also added considerable housing, both the Banks and in the form of building conversions or new highrise construction. But the realities are OTR has probably experienced a decrease in population, and the number of housing units added to the downtown core pales in comparison to what the City has lost.
Commendable they are in the right direction, but lamentable they are a spit in the ocean compared to what is needed.

So far, no one has a plan to revitalize the inner ring neighborhoods, particularly the west side. These suffered the greatest population loss in the flight out of the City and what need to be repopulated in large numbers for Cincinnati to even come close to regaining its former prestige.

Welcome back Wilson. Now I won't be the only self-opinionated guy posting here.

When someone says safe, nice urban neighborhood, larger historic home, and willing to spend up to $1 Mil, it just screams Columbia Tusculum or Hyde Park to me. Especially with working downtown and the short commute.

Mt Adams to me is a collection of lean-tos plastered on a hillside. Great views, but I see absolutely nothing historic about it other than it has managed to stand there this long.