Liberty Center Mall Grand Opening

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

Part of the appeal of Class A malls is the same as Whole Foods - i.e. snob appeal. I think you can add a certain amount of lower tier retail like H&M, provided it's cool. Maybe even Target. But if it isn't cool, that ruins your snob appeal.

I'd say this is a true and rather blunt assessment (in a good way). It comes down to spending power in retail. And retailers need that and go as close to that spending power as possible. I think the money is better positioned closer to Kenwood than Liberty. Don't get me wrong. Liberty is a fantastic concept that Steiner started with Easton and has replicated (with relatively good success) elsewhere. But I don't think you have the same type of reputation as Easton or the big dollars close in like Kenwood.

I think that's Macys' problem. Lazarus could afford to upgrade their stores and keep them looking new. I don't think Macy's can afford to do that anymore. The Columbus stores are nice and so is Beavercreek, but everything else I've seen has been scary.

Macy's is over extended on real estate. It's a big reason why they are closing locations. The overhead hurts bottom line now. Other management and industry factors (i.e. e-commerce channels) have hurt them as well. I'd say Easton is an A grade Macy's (basically the Ohio flagship if one doesn't count Fountain Square)
and Beavercreek being B+. Newness probably has something to do with it (only 24 years old in that location). Some locations are in dated malls from the 60's and 70's in smaller markets. Dayton, at least, has a decent sized market in comparison to Harrisburg or Beaver, Pennsylvania. Or less saturated with older stores such as Sarasota, FL. I have been to some, especially in small markets or older malls that look more like a glorified JCP. Those would earn a B- or even C. That is the scary part about Macy's. Lack of consistency. Again, that breeds from rushing the conversion process, buying May Dept. Stores in the middle of that, and now having too thin management spread across too much territory.

As a side note, Bon-Ton (E-B parent) and its stores can be the same way. Beavercreek's Elder-Beerman is wonderful (and recently renovated). The one in Paducah, KY? Not as much. Dillard's is one of the few large scale department stores to be rather consistent in store upkeep and atmosphere. Just an IMO.

I haven't been to Dayton Mall in ages, but I've been to The Greene and to the mall in Beavercreek within the last year. I think Dayton probably has one too many malls. Both The Greene and Beavercreek seemed to have more vacancies than they should. Nowhere near dead mall status, but maybe cannibalizing each other?

Short answer? Yes. A lot of higher-end retailers left Fairfield Commons for The Greene when it first opened. Most are still there. Personally, I think the management at The Greene (Olshan) has a bad rap in the retail leasing world. That probably doesn't help either. Also, The Greene does not have a typical mall layout, so fringes, such as near Panera or J. Jill or Gap, can be harder to lease. Same goes for most malls today with fewer retailers to work with. Spaces in wings, especially near a JCP or Sears can seem dead.

But I can't say I intimately know the traffic patterns in Dayton as well as I know them in Columbus and Cincinnati.

I think this analysis is pretty spot on.

[PerryMason614]

Originally Posted by wrightflyer

I'd say this is a true and rather blunt assessment (in a good way). It comes down to spending power in retail. And retailers need that and go as close to that spending power as possible. I think the money is better positioned closer to Kenwood than Liberty. Don't get me wrong. Liberty is a fantastic concept that Steiner started with Easton and has replicated (with relatively good success) elsewhere. But I don't think you have the same type of reputation as Easton or the big dollars close in like Kenwood.

Since you're from Columbus, maybe you'll agree with this. That Liberty area kind of reminds me of the Pickerington area. The area has decent demographics and decent levels of income to support most of the big box stores, but it's not an area where you are going to have a lot of top-tier retail. If May Company had been smart enough to build that Kauffman's store Macy's just closed on Ohio 256 instead of at Eastland, I don't think it would have ever gone to the chopping block. It might even be thriving.

Originally Posted by wrightflyer

Macy's is over extended on real estate. It's a big reason why they are closing locations. The overhead hurts bottom line now. Other management and industry factors (i.e. e-commerce channels) have hurt them as well. I'd say Easton is an A grade Macy's (basically the Ohio flagship if one doesn't count Fountain Square) and Beavercreek being B+. Newness probably has something to do with it (only 24 years old in that location). Some locations are in dated malls from the 60's and 70's in smaller markets. Dayton, at least, has a decent sized market in comparison to Harrisburg or Beaver, Pennsylvania. Or less saturated with older stores such as Sarasota, FL. I have been to some, especially in small markets or older malls that look more like a glorified JCP. Those would earn a B- or even C. That is the scary part about Macy's. Lack of consistency. Again, that breeds from rushing the conversion process, buying May Dept. Stores in the middle of that, and now having too thin management spread across too much territory.

As a side note, Bon-Ton (E-B parent) and its stores can be the same way. Beavercreek's Elder-Beerman is wonderful (and recently renovated). The one in Paducah, KY? Not as much. Dillard's is one of the few large scale department stores to be rather consistent in store upkeep and atmosphere. Just an IMO.

I think Federated inherited a lot of junk through Allied Stores, Macy's and through May Company. And the May Company stores that are nice, like Southpark in Cleveland, have kind of a boring look. More like Dillards. I'm sure you've seen me rant about this before, but in Mansfield they spend millions remodeling the Lazarus store only to close it and move into the Kaufmann's store which hasn't been touched since it opened. I don't know who made that stupid decision, but I hope he's no longer with the company.

A lot of Bon-Ton and ShopKo stores seem to be hitting the real estate market for sale recently. I'm guessing the clock is ticking and both of these companies are going to file bankruptcy. Bon-Ton is an odd collection of stores, mostly in small towns and most of them without a lot of eye appeal. They might be a good mate for Belk once they get rid of all their debt in BK.

[Briolat21]

Apologies for the brief off topic:

I can't tell with the multi quotes above in post #61. whether it was WrightFlyer, or PerryMason mentioning "Beaver, PA"..

But I gotta say, I'm floored that anyone (outside of Beaver, Rochester, Monaca, etc..) knows of Beaver, PA.

Where I'll be going in about 1 weeks time..

[wrightflyer]

I'm actually in Greensburg right now for work. But yes, I have heard of Beaver, PA. We have a number of customers in and around Pittsburgh.

But the real reason? Probably because I grew up in Beavercreek! Ohio, that is.

[Quickslinger]

Half of the indoor portion of the Mall was vacant when I went about a month ago. It seems like this Mall was a big failure (I really hope it is).

[Briolat21]

Originally Posted by Quickslinger

Half of the indoor portion of the Mall was vacant when I went about a month ago. It seems like this Mall was a big failure (I really hope it is).

I can't comment on the indoor portion of the mall, because I never bother with it. I know there are some food options (food court, but slightly more interesting) and other than that a few typical mall stores that once you're over the age of 20, you don't need to bother with..

To be honest, I have no idea why they bothered with the interior portion.

That said, why are you *hoping* it's a "Big failure"?

[Quickslinger]

Originally Posted by Briolat21

I can't comment on the indoor portion of the mall, because I never bother with it. I know there are some food options (food court, but slightly more interesting) and other than that a few typical mall stores that once you're over the age of 20, you don't need to bother with..

To be honest, I have no idea why they bothered with the interior portion.

That said, why are you *hoping* it's a "Big failure"?

I agree with you on the indoor portion. As big of a fan that I am of indoor malls, Liberty Center needed to focus on either being an open-life-style center or a West Chester version of Kenwood Towne Centre.
I'm not a fan of Liberty Towne Center because of it's design, location, food court design, and stores. We've got 4 Malls all in one area, while one of the older malls should be focused on, in order to help it redevelop.