Top 6 Things I Hate About Cincinnati (Cleveland, Dayton: high crime, university, living)

[JCL01]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

I've lived that life before ... gang bangin, trusting no one, except for my "boys". Living life like the rich and the famous. Partying it up in the hotels ... and most importantly -I was the last one anyone would ever call a snitch.

Things changed. I grew up. The people I associate with are doing well for themselves. Now family matters most. I'll never forget where I came from and what I used to be in comparison to where I am now will cause me to be the first one to snitch. Hell yeah, you can bet your ass on it.

I think I saw that after-school special...

Seriously, though, I'm not sure being either the first or last person to snitch is particularly admirable...there's a reason kids are taught no one likes a tattle tale, but of course there are times...

My only point is that one should not discount the very real pressures and fears to which people in certain situations are subject. Indeed, retribution need not necessarily be doled out directly - and it may be a concern for the interests of other innocents that causes some people to want to just stay out of such situations. Moreover, proclamations of one's own heroism/moral superiority are in not particularly tasteful or persuasive.

[JCL01]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

First, I never stated that ORV 2921.22 was "obstruction of justice."

Second, what you've stated would never hold up in court. The severity of the crime (in our case, murder) plays a more important role than let's say vandalism. Hillside's "Privileges" would be thrown out quicker than you can say "snitch".

Everything I cited was from a court case....the case citations were included. That is how Ohio courts actually have applied the law. The Advisory Committee notes that you have cited, first, predate the court cases I cited and, second, are just that...advisory. They have no binding effect except to the extent that an Ohio court specifically adopts the language in an opinion. In other words, the court cases control.

Further, the "privilege" specifically is found in the U.S. Constitution (5th Amendment - as in "I'm taking the 5th") and cannot be limited or changed by the State of Ohio in any way whatsoever.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by JCL01

I think I saw that after-school special...

In a way, I wish it were. You live and learn, right?

Seriously, though, I'm not sure being either the first or last person to snitch is particularly admirable...there's a reason kids are taught no one likes a tattle tale, but of course there are times...

An example of 5th grader tattle telling and a grown man that knows information about a serious crime that occurred are hardly comparable.

My only point is that one should not discount the very real pressures and fears to which people in certain situations are subject.

Agreed, hence the reply you originally quoted.

Moreover, proclamations of one's own heroism/moral superiority are in not particularly tasteful or persuasive.

I think it's more about real life & knowing what it's like to walk in "those" shoes than heroism or moral superiority.

[jlrosen]

there is a difference between consensual crimes and actual crimes.

if someone takes drugs, or engages in prostitution or illegal gambling, then they generally do so of their own free will and hurt only themselves. it is only illegal because the state says so.

Actual crimes have an victim and are not consensual, rape murder robbery.

snitch or don't on the first group, but justice demands cooperation on the second.

[Hartwell Girl]

The Hamilton County Coroner has done a great job getting the word out and doing presentations about how most of the homicides in the Cincy are have been due to buying, selling or using drugs (drugs found in the system of those deceased)--So as long as you are not buying selling or using drugs, you have a better likelyhood of not being involved in any of Cincys crime.

[JCL01]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

In a way, I wish it were. You live and learn, right?

Sure.

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

An example of 5th grader tattle telling and a grown man that knows information about a serious crime that occurred are hardly comparable.

Didn't say they were literally, directly comparable.

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

Agreed, hence the reply you originally quoted.

Don't see what you're getting at.

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

I think it's more about real life & knowing what it's like to walk in "those" shoes than heroism or moral superiority.

It's the same presentation/attitude, regardless of how you frame it.

[hillside]

Thanks Cle440. Sorry I dissapointed you. First Cincy Rise says he's an ex-thug turned informant that would have never been one if he was still a thug (WOW) and now you're telling me you grew up in the trenches when you're not even from the city of Cleveland. I grew up in Cincinnati. I never even heard of anything at all happening in Lorain or whatever suburb you're talking about. This is silly and the credibility of you guys looking at electronic pieces of paper doesn't add up to my mental memories of what it was like growing up in Cincinnati. So you guys can keep being internet thugs, or you can agree to disagree as I'm more than willing to do. Because you guys clearly do not get it and seemingly never will.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by hillside

Thanks Cle440. Sorry I dissapointed you. First Cincy Rise says he's an ex-thug turned informant that would have never been one if he was still a thug (WOW) and now you're telling me you grew up in the trenches when you're not even from the city of Cleveland. I grew up in Cincinnati. I never even heard of anything at all happening in Lorain or whatever suburb you're talking about. This is silly and the credibility of you guys looking at electronic pieces of paper doesn't add up to my mental memories of what it was like growing up in Cincinnati. So you guys can keep being internet thugs, or you can agree to disagree as I'm more than willing to do. Because you guys clearly do not get it and seemingly never will.

First of all I never said I grew up in Cleveland. Im defending the city because I live in the area and I know about it. When I was younger I spent time in Cleveland only a few times because I know people there. Also Lorain is not a suburb... Its a Industrial city 20 miles west of Cleveland. It has 70,000 people and its poverty rate is 27%. It also has the largest hispanic percentage of any city in Ohio and has a large black percentage too. Also Elyria isnt a suburb either, its a city of 55,000 its not bad but the southside is pretty rough. I never said I was a "thug" I just grew up around that stuff and I got out as soon as I could. I saw a lot of things growing up and I know a lot now.

Now that I cleared that up I still cant understand what your point is. You keep saying that Cincinnati is the worst place or something. I saw probably all the same things you saw growing up, that happens in every bad area its not limited to bad areas of Cincinnati. Your only purpose is trying to prove Cincinnati is bad, while there is all these honest people on here speaking the truth about the city. Cincinnati is not as bad as you say it is. Yes, you have to look at it from both sides of the fence but your experiences that you are talking about happen in every bad area.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

First of all I never said I grew up in Cleveland. Im defending the city because I live in the area and I know about it. When I was younger I spent time in Cleveland only a few times because I know people there. Also Lorain is not a suburb... Its a Industrial city 20 miles west of Cleveland. It has 70,000 people and its poverty rate is 27%. It also has the largest hispanic percentage of any city in Ohio and has a large black percentage too. Also Elyria isnt a suburb either, its a city of 55,000 its not bad but the southside is pretty rough. I never said I was a "thug" I just grew up around that stuff and I got out as soon as I could. I saw a lot of things growing up and I know a lot now.

Now that I cleared that up I still cant understand what your point is. You keep saying that Cincinnati is the worst place or something. I saw probably all the same things you saw growing up, that happens in every bad area its not limited to bad areas of Cincinnati. Your only purpose is trying to prove Cincinnati is bad, while there is all these honest people on here speaking the truth about the city. Cincinnati is not as bad as you say it is. Yes, you have to look at it from both sides of the fence but your experiences that you are talking about happen in every bad area.

you cant have it both ways. if you want to talk about the extent of the positives, you have to be willing to accept the reality of the bad. and i admit, i might be a rarer case than most. i've had a hard life. but i know plenty others who came up just like me, so it's not that rare. i'm the most honest guy on here. i have no bias. i call it like i see it. i defend cinci all the time. but on crime? nah. there are plenty of folks who would agree with me, it's just that most of them don't own computers.

if you think lorain is bad, come to hamilton where i lived. east avenue and front st.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Lorain-Ohio.html
http://www.city-data.com/city/Hamilton-Ohio.html

numbers look pretty close to me...
http://www.city-data.com/city/Cleveland-Ohio.html
http://www.city-data.com/city/Cincinnati-Ohio.html

i'll even break it down...

highest crime rate-cincinnati
2001, 2002, 2003, 2004

highest crime rate-cleveland
1999, 2000, 2005, 2006

highest murder rate-cincinnati
2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006

highest murder rate-cleveland
1999, 2000

that enough proof?

[BelieveInCleve]

I have been to Hamilton before a few times. People were saying the Eastside was bad, but I have been there and nothing in the city is that bad. Lorain does not give out full reports, look at East Clevelands page, its the same situation. I have been to both and trust me Lorain is a lot worse than Hamilton, even Elyria is worse. Lorain also had 10 homicides last year. And I dont see how Hamilton could be ghetto when its 90% white.

The numbers may be close for some years but you have to factor in a few things. First off the murders are wrong for at least 1 year, in 2006 there was 119 murders, making the crime rate close to 1000. If I see correct Cincinnati only had 15 murders in 2000? Cleveland has never had below 70 murders, in fact before 1994 Cleveland had never had below 157, and in the 70s it was in the 300s. Also factor in that most the crimes in Cleveland are never reported. Cincinnati is not good, but as far as crime Cleveland and Cincinnati shouldnt even be in the same sentence.