Top 6 Things I Hate About Cincinnati (Pleasantville: 2010, homes, employment)

[Ohiogirl81]

And I dont see how Hamilton could be ghetto when its 90% white.

Well, "ghetto" really means nothing more than a concentration of like people in one area. For instance, the University of Dayton student ghetto but I digress.

The more common definition of ghetto is a rundown area of concentrated poverty, and no one race or ethnicity has a corner on poverty. Parts of Hamilton certainly could be considered a ghetto, but the entire city is not.

[Hartwell Girl]

Sometimes you tell yourself something long enough you begin to really believe it. Cincinnati is NOT as bad as you would like others to believe Hillside. We can agree to disagree. But your crime stats dont mean anything to me or most the people I know, numbers can be used to make people believe anything. You have made many false statements here about my neighborhoods and others, and I know that to be a FACT. I live here, every day. I spent hours a day volunteering in my neighborhood and for other neighborhoods. I choose not to judge someone by the color of their skin, the neighborhoods they live, the hardships they have had to endure--I instead base my love for this City on all the good things I see happening and there are many things ALL around us--things you cannot see because you do not live here. I grew up in Dayton...in a very poor neighborhood with a lot of bad things. But you dont see me saying bad things about Dayton here, because I dont live there anymore. I know people who do, but I dont base my arguements about my city on other peoples views. Bottom line, I Live here...I choose to live here...I choose to want to live here and I cant stand when people tear this City down when it is a great place to live and raise a family. I take every word personally just as you did when you felt someone was saying something bad about people you knew who got shot. So please understand where I am coming from, I wouldnt let you talk bad about my kid, and I wont let you talk bad about my home.

[Ohiogirl81]

The point, Hartwell Girl, is that people come to this website for others' opinions about different places. You have an opinion. Hillside has his. One thread could have dozens of opinions. You might not agree with all of them, but that doesn't mean that the opinions you disagree with are wrong.

Everyone has different reference points and experiences on which to base those opinions. Two people can even have the same experience, yet form different opinions about that identical experience.

But no opinion is wrong, because they are just ... opinions.

And the reality is, there is plenty wrong with Cincinnati. Just because there is crime, and poverty, and mismanagement of public funds, etc., does not mean it's not a great place to live; it means that the city and its residents have a lot of work to do. It would be as ridiculous to ignore the city's problems as it would to believe that because one neighborhood is in decline, the entire city is in decline.

[Hartwell Girl]

Its the perception that those opinions give which bother me most...especially since he said himself that he doesnt live in this City of CIncinnati. Some may get on here looking for a place to live and completely leave Cincy out of the list because of the constant negative posts about Cincinnati from this one person.
I wrote the post to Hillside..and in it I stated we can agree to disagree..I guess you over looked that.

[Ohiogirl81]

I think if people make up their minds based on one negative post, they're not looking for a positive response in the first place.

You'll see a lot of negativity about the city on this forum. Some of it is serious; some of it isn't. Some perceptions fly in the face of my own experiences living and working in Cincinnati, and some fly in the face of your experience, as you've discovered. That's just the way it is.

[JCL01]

Originally Posted by Hartwell Girl

Its the perception that those opinions give which bother me most...especially since he said himself that he doesnt live in this City of CIncinnati. Some may get on here looking for a place to live and completely leave Cincy out of the list because of the constant negative posts about Cincinnati from this one person.
I wrote the post to Hillside..and in it I stated we can agree to disagree..I guess you over looked that.

I've lived in Lexington, Ky, the SF Bay Area, SE Michigan, Cincy, and now Chicago...I have friends in Cleveland and have visited several times, so I have a perspective on a few different places.

My opinion is that arguing over which is worse, Cincy or Cleveland is arguing over very small differences. They're both in that "we're not as bad as Detroit," but have more crime than they should category.

Speaking of Cincy in particular - it's certainly not the worst city in the country for crime, but it's not good by any stretch. I think what can irritates people about the Cincy boosters is the attitude that there is no significant crime problem in Cincy and that it's just perception and people who say otherwise are exaggerating and trying to "drag the city down." There is a crime problem. It's correct that it's not among the worst in the country, but that doesn't mean it's good. The fact that there aren't people being beaten and robbed every day on the streets of whatever neighborhood you live in does not change that reality.

I think a lot of Cincy's problem is that so much of the city (not talking about the suburbs) feels and looks run down. It seems that there are only small pockets of niceness, like Hyde Park, Mt. Lookout, Md. Adams. Chicago has some areas that are as bad as in any city. However, when you compare the areas that everyone is supposed to go to there's no comparison...when I'm in the Loop in Chicago, it's much cleaner, much fewer "suspect" looking people, add in the north side neighborhoods and the lake shore and it feels like the ghetto is worlds away if you don't actually live in one of those neighborhoods. In contrast, downtown (and almost all of) Cincinnati feels run down and appears dangerous ...I know it's not really that bad...I lived downtown for 2 years without incident...but it still feels like there's crime around every corner. This was the aspect that Guiliani addressed head-on in NYC - the "broken windows" theory - how a place looks influences perceptions of the area and both have a real effect on crime. Cincy apparently doesn't have anyone that wants to be that aggressive in making a change.

True story: Director Steven Soderbergh is from Louisville. When he was directing Traffic he wanted to put his home town in the movie in some of the ghetto scenes where the kids go to get drugs. Now I've been to the ghetto in Louisville, and it's not a pretty area. Nonetheless, he decided to shoot the ghetto scenes in nearby Over-the-Rhine instead because it had so much more of a seedier feel - that it was so much more the prototypical, authentic ghetto that he had to use it.

From the beginning of the time I started contemplating moving to Cincinnati for work (2003) until I left this year, I heard the same talk of how OTR and whatever other the ghetto of the moment was being "revitalized" and undergoing a "renaissance" and how young professionals were moving in. It was always greatly exaggerated and progress has been minimal.

I don't think the city make an real, substantial improvement until people in the city generally, and the leadership in particular, start admitting how deep some of the problems are and make a decision to tackle them head-on. Telling people that mention the crime problem (many of whom would like to see improvement in the city) that they're just trying to "knock" the city or whatever is not the attitude that will bring about improvement - it is the attitude that has let the city slip from being rated as one of the nation's "most livable" in the 90s to the situation today.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

I have been to Hamilton before a few times. People were saying the Eastside was bad, but I have been there and nothing in the city is that bad. Lorain does not give out full reports, look at East Clevelands page, its the same situation. I have been to both and trust me Lorain is a lot worse than Hamilton, even Elyria is worse. Lorain also had 10 homicides last year. And I dont see how Hamilton could be ghetto when its 90% white.

The numbers may be close for some years but you have to factor in a few things. First off the murders are wrong for at least 1 year, in 2006 there was 119 murders, making the crime rate close to 1000. If I see correct Cincinnati only had 15 murders in 2000? Cleveland has never had below 70 murders, in fact before 1994 Cleveland had never had below 157, and in the 70s it was in the 300s. Also factor in that most the crimes in Cleveland are never reported. Cincinnati is not good, but as far as crime Cleveland and Cincinnati shouldnt even be in the same sentence.

Thanks for ignoring the stats that say Hamilton is worse, and that Cincinnati has been just as dangerous as Cleveland, more so in certain years. That was an 8 year sample. Seems long enough to me. And the fact that you said Hamilton couldn't be ghetto because it's mostly white? That in itself is racist and strips you of all credibility you had left. black does not equal crime. poverty and lack of education equals crime. And if you didn't see a ghetto in Hamilton, I'm convinced you've never been. But since you brought it up, Hamilton DOES have a sizeable black population as well as an already large and growing exponentially Hispanic population. East Hamilton looks terrible, and the facts said that Lorain wasn't half as bad about crime most every year. You wanted facts, I gave them to you. Now you come up with 1973 Cleveland excuses to refute. No validity. No credibility. You're not from Cleveland though you're absolutely certain of its dangers and you think that black and hispanic=ghetto. Sorry man. That doesn't fly over here.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by JCL01

I've lived in Lexington, Ky, the SF Bay Area, SE Michigan, Cincy, and now Chicago...I have friends in Cleveland and have visited several times, so I have a perspective on a few different places.

My opinion is that arguing over which is worse, Cincy or Cleveland is arguing over very small differences. They're both in that "we're not as bad as Detroit," but have more crime than they should category.

Speaking of Cincy in particular - it's certainly not the worst city in the country for crime, but it's not good by any stretch. I think what can irritates people about the Cincy boosters is the attitude that there is no significant crime problem in Cincy and that it's just perception and people who say otherwise are exaggerating and trying to "drag the city down." There is a crime problem. It's correct that it's not among the worst in the country, but that doesn't mean it's good. The fact that there aren't people being beaten and robbed every day on the streets of whatever neighborhood you live in does not change that reality.

I think a lot of Cincy's problem is that so much of the city (not talking about the suburbs) feels and looks run down. It seems that there are only small pockets of niceness, like Hyde Park, Mt. Lookout, Md. Adams. Chicago has some areas that are as bad as in any city. However, when you compare the areas that everyone is supposed to go to there's no comparison...when I'm in the Loop in Chicago, it's much cleaner, much fewer "suspect" looking people, add in the north side neighborhoods and the lake shore and it feels like the ghetto is worlds away if you don't actually live in one of those neighborhoods. In contrast, downtown (and almost all of) Cincinnati feels run down and appears dangerous ...I know it's not really that bad...I lived downtown for 2 years without incident...but it still feels like there's crime around every corner. This was the aspect that Guiliani addressed head-on in NYC - the "broken windows" theory - how a place looks influences perceptions of the area and both have a real effect on crime. Cincy apparently doesn't have anyone that wants to be that aggressive in making a change.

True story: Director Steven Soderbergh is from Louisville. When he was directing Traffic he wanted to put his home town in the movie in some of the ghetto scenes where the kids go to get drugs. Now I've been to the ghetto in Louisville, and it's not a pretty area. Nonetheless, he decided to shoot the ghetto scenes in nearby Over-the-Rhine instead because it had so much more of a seedier feel - that it was so much more the prototypical, authentic ghetto that he had to use it.

From the beginning of the time I started contemplating moving to Cincinnati for work (2003) until I left this year, I heard the same talk of how OTR and whatever other the ghetto of the moment was being "revitalized" and undergoing a "renaissance" and how young professionals were moving in. It was always greatly exaggerated and progress has been minimal.

I don't think the city make an real, substantial improvement until people in the city generally, and the leadership in particular, start admitting how deep some of the problems are and make a decision to tackle them head-on. Telling people that mention the crime problem (many of whom would like to see improvement in the city) that they're just trying to "knock" the city or whatever is not the attitude that will bring about improvement - it is the attitude that has let the city slip from being rated as one of the nation's "most livable" in the 90s to the situation today.

One of the best posts on here in awhile. Very fair to both sides.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Hartwell Girl

Sometimes you tell yourself something long enough you begin to really believe it. Cincinnati is NOT as bad as you would like others to believe Hillside. We can agree to disagree. But your crime stats dont mean anything to me or most the people I know, numbers can be used to make people believe anything. You have made many false statements here about my neighborhoods and others, and I know that to be a FACT. I live here, every day. I spent hours a day volunteering in my neighborhood and for other neighborhoods. I choose not to judge someone by the color of their skin, the neighborhoods they live, the hardships they have had to endure--I instead base my love for this City on all the good things I see happening and there are many things ALL around us--things you cannot see because you do not live here. I grew up in Dayton...in a very poor neighborhood with a lot of bad things. But you dont see me saying bad things about Dayton here, because I dont live there anymore. I know people who do, but I dont base my arguements about my city on other peoples views. Bottom line, I Live here...I choose to live here...I choose to want to live here and I cant stand when people tear this City down when it is a great place to live and raise a family. I take every word personally just as you did when you felt someone was saying something bad about people you knew who got shot. So please understand where I am coming from, I wouldnt let you talk bad about my kid, and I wont let you talk bad about my home.

It's my home too. Cincinnati has good and bad, just like every city. My experience was good, but bad happened with regularity, because that's how it was. What I'm saying is that in my personal experience in Cincinnati, it has not been a safe place to be in general. I don't feel scared at all, but the dangers are there and shouldn't be denied. The first step to recovery is admittal . I don't even think we'd be talking about it if it wasn't a problem. The fact that we both have strong opinions on this makes crime an issue in Cincinnati. JCL01 probably summed this up the best. You can feel how you want, but saying that someone is making up stuff just because they feel or experienced things differently is seeing the tree and missing the forest.

[BelieveInCleve]

Fair enough Hillside. I saw the stats and I agree that Hamilton isnt the best place. I have been to Hamilton, East Hamilton most places of the city but i have only been there a few times. I can say that some areas were pretty decayed but it wasnt that bad. To me "ghetto" means that its at least half minority, and has high crime, poverty, etc. What you are talking about to me is just considered a bad area, not a ghetto. I am not racist at all I grew up in areas that were mostly minority, just my definition of ghetto is different than yours I guess. I meant no disrespect to you.

But Lorain and Elyria always have wrong stats. Those two cities hardly ever report crime stats, actually this is the only website where I have even seen stats for Lorain. Lorain lost thousands of jobs at the steel mill in South Lorain and ever since then its been going downhill a lot. Its pretty well known up here how bad Lorain is, as I guess Hamilton is down there. Also check my posts, I never said I lived in Cleveland, I have been at friends houses in bad areas for a few days and I have been there many times though. Anyways I am tired of fighting about this stuff for no reason. I apologize for any dumb things that I might have said, I didnt realize it at the time. Lets just call a truce, Cleveland and Cincinnati are both bad, I see your other posts and you and me have the same thoughts on a lot of things.