Top 6 Things I Hate About Cincinnati (Cleveland, Lorain: crime rate, hotel, buying)

[JCL01]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

Hell, you are disrespecting yourself and the people that were killed or hurt by failing to "snitch".

Or perhaps knowing enough not to jump in front of a moving bus, so to speak.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by JCL01

No. "Obstruction of Justice" means actively interfering with or subverting an judicial investigation or a court proceeding.

"A criminal offense that involves interference, through words or actions, with the proper operations of a court or officers of the court"

obstruction of justice: Definition and Much More from Answers.com

Unless subpoenaed, you have no obligation to answer any questions whatsoever or come forward with information.

ORC: 2921.22

"2921.22 Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury.
(A) No person, knowing that a felony has been or is being committed, shall knowingly fail to report such information to law enforcement authorities."

Lawriter - ORC - 2921.22 Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by JCL01

Or perhaps knowing enough not to jump in front of a moving bus, so to speak.

Yes, so to speak ...

In the case at hand ... I will knowingly put myself in danger to help an innocent victim, especially if I know key information that could lead to an arrest.

[jlrosen]

Originally Posted by JCL01

No. "Obstruction of Justice" means actively interfering with or subverting an judicial investigation or a court proceeding.

"A criminal offense that involves interference, through words or actions, with the proper operations of a court or officers of the court"

obstruction of justice: Definition and Much More from Answers.com

Unless subpoenaed, you have no obligation to answer any questions whatsoever or come forward with information.

I always thought that testifying in general, in or out of court, was considered 'snitching'

[JCL01]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

ORC: 2921.22

"2921.22 Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury.
(A) No person, knowing that a felony has been or is being committed, shall knowingly fail to report such information to law enforcement authorities."

Lawriter - ORC - 2921.22 Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury.

First, that's different that "obstruction of justice."

Second, it's more limited than it appears:

"R.C. 2921.22(A) does not proscribe a refusal to answer police questions once the police are aware of the crime." In re Stichtenoth, 67 Ohio App. 2d 108, 21 Ohio Op. 3d 420, 425 N.E.2d 957 (1980).

and

As used in R.C. 2921.22(A), the word “report” includes both notifying law enforcement officials and setting in motion events which will result in notification to these officials. In re Stichtenoth, 67 Ohio App. 2d 108, 21 Ohio Op. 3d 420, 425 N.E.2d 957 (1980).

and

Reporting a felony to responsible people constitutes setting in motion events which will result in notification of law enforcement officials. In re Stichtenoth, 67 Ohio App. 2d 108, 21 Ohio Op. 3d 420, 425 N.E.2d 957 (1980).


Thus, you don't have any duty to report anything other than the bare fact that the felony occurred. You have no duty to provide any details regarding who was involved or the surrounding circumstances (i.e. snitch). Further, you have no duty whatsoever under the statute once the police know of a felony.

Also:
Revised Code § 2921.22 is unconstitutional as applied in a case where, by virtue of reporting the crime, the person would have given information which would tend to incriminate herself or lead to her own prosecution: State v. Wardlow, 20 Ohio App. 3d 1, 20 Ohio B. 1, 484 N.E.2d 276 (1985).

So, if you take that all together - it basically means that it applies to virtually no one - if you're involved somehow in the crime or a related crime you have the constitutional privilege against self-incrimination. If you're innocent but know of a crime, you don't have to do anything if the cops already know of the crime. You can't be forced to answer questions because they must know of the crime if they're asking you questions about it. If they don't know, you just have to tell them that a crime happened, not any details. And if you're really not involved, no one would have any reason to know that you know anything about the crime, so it's very unlikely that you'd ever be reported.

Not quite the case with obstruction of justice...

[JCL01]

Originally Posted by jlrosen

I always thought that testifying in general, in or out of court, was considered 'snitching'

True, but if you're not involved in the crime itself, it's hard to disprove an assertion that you don't know anything about it. Few prosecutors would go after an otherwise innocent person because they said they don't know anything when they might know something. That's why you only see "forced snitching" in cases where they already have something on someone...i.e. they're charged with another crime and trying to get a reduced sentence.

[JCL01]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

Yes, so to speak ...

In the case at hand ... I will knowingly put myself in danger to help an innocent victim, especially if I know key information that could lead to an arrest.

Maybe that's true, but its easy to say and easier to type...

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by JCL01

First, that's different that "obstruction of justice."

Second, it's more limited than it appears:

"R.C. 2921.22(A) does not proscribe a refusal to answer police questions once the police are aware of the crime." In re Stichtenoth, 67 Ohio App. 2d 108, 21 Ohio Op. 3d 420, 425 N.E.2d 957 (1980).

and

As used in R.C. 2921.22(A), the word “report” includes both notifying law enforcement officials and setting in motion events which will result in notification to these officials. In re Stichtenoth, 67 Ohio App. 2d 108, 21 Ohio Op. 3d 420, 425 N.E.2d 957 (1980).

and

Reporting a felony to responsible people constitutes setting in motion events which will result in notification of law enforcement officials. In re Stichtenoth, 67 Ohio App. 2d 108, 21 Ohio Op. 3d 420, 425 N.E.2d 957 (1980).


Thus, you don't have any duty to report anything other than the bare fact that the felony occurred. You have no duty to provide any details regarding who was involved or the surrounding circumstances (i.e. snitch). Further, you have no duty whatsoever under the statute once the police know of a felony.

Also:
Revised Code § 2921.22 is unconstitutional as applied in a case where, by virtue of reporting the crime, the person would have given information which would tend to incriminate herself or lead to her own prosecution: State v. Wardlow, 20 Ohio App. 3d 1, 20 Ohio B. 1, 484 N.E.2d 276 (1985).

So, if you take that all together - it basically means that it applies to virtually no one - if you're involved somehow in the crime or a related crime you have the constitutional privilege against self-incrimination. If you're innocent but know of a crime, you don't have to do anything if the cops already know of the crime. You can't be forced to answer questions because they must know of the crime if they're asking you questions about it. If they don't know, you just have to tell them that a crime happened, not any details. And if you're really not involved, no one would have any reason to know that you know anything about the crime, so it's very unlikely that you'd ever be reported.

Not quite the case with obstruction of justice...

First, I never stated that ORV 2921.22 was "obstruction of justice."

Second, what you've stated would never hold up in court. The severity of the crime (in our case, murder) plays a more important role than let's say vandalism. Hillside's "Privileges" would be thrown out quicker than you can say "snitch".

supremecourtofohio.gov/BOC/ Advisory_Opinions/1986/Op%2086-001.doc

19xx Committee Report or Comment.

1974 Committee Comment to H 511

This first part of this section is similar to, but narrower than the common law crime of misprision of felony. The second part of the section retains a requirement in former law that doctors and others report injuries patently caused by criminal violence.

The gist of misprision at common law was keeping silence or failing to attempt to apprehend the offender when one knew a felony had been committed. There was only one exception: a wife was not bound to report her husband's crimes. It was a passive offense, i.e., if any active aid was given to the offender, the aider became an accessory to the crime, after the fact.

Under this section, persons are required only to inform authorities of felonies of which they have knowledge, and are not required to attempt apprehension of the offender. Also, a number of relationships are privileged under this section which were not privileged at common law. These include: attorney and client; doctor and patient; licensed psychologist and client; priest and penitent; clergyman and parishioner; husband and wife, and other immediate family members; newsmen, with respect to confidential news sources; and those engaged in authorized drug treatment or counseling programs.

The rationale for requiring that serious crimes be reported is that effective crime prevention and law enforcement depend significantly on the cooperation of the public. The section covers, for example, the situation where bystanders ignore a murder victim's pleas for help because they do not want to "become involved." The rationale for the exceptions is that, in each case in which a privilege is applicable, the considerations favoring keeping silence override the general policy considerations requiring serious crimes to be reported.

This section also requires doctors, limited practitioners, nurses, and others who give aid to the sick or injured, to report gunshot and stab wounds, and other serious injuries which they know or have reasonable cause to believe resulted from a crime of violence, such as the "battered child syndrome." The reporting requirement under this part of the section is absolute, i.e., no privilege attaches in the cases covered.

The section explicitly states that no disclosure of information under the section can give rise to any cause of action or recrimination of any kind for breach of privilege or confidence. This includes disclosure of information which is privileged under the section, and which the person disclosing it is therefore not required to divulge.

Failure to report a crime is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree when the failure is to report a felony of which one has knowledge. Failure of a doctor, nurse, or person giving aid to the sick or injured to report wounds resulting from criminal violence is a misdemeanor of the second degree."

§ 2921.22. Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury.


The bold and underlined above is what our main goal is ... isn't it? Are we not debating how safe or unsafe an area is?

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by JCL01

Maybe that's true, but its easy to say and easier to type...

I've lived that life before ... gang bangin, trusting no one, except for my "boys". Living life like the rich and the famous. Partying it up in the hotels ... and most importantly -I was the last one anyone would ever call a snitch.

Things changed. I grew up. The people I associate with are doing well for themselves. Now family matters most. I'll never forget where I came from and what I used to be in comparison to where I am now will cause me to be the first one to snitch. Hell yeah, you can bet your ass on it.

[BelieveInCleve]

Hillside, I am kind of disappointed in you. Now it is pretty clear to me that your only purpose in this thread is to make Cincinnati look worse than it is. Your stats are all wrong and you dont have much proof for your statements. Also I didnt even say anything about Cleveland in my post. I said that Cleveland and Cincinnati were tied as far as crime and decay before but that was only to stop arguing for no reason. Noone is doubting that Cincinnati may be rough, but its not nearly as bad as you say. All of those crimes you said could have happened anywhere. I grew up in South Elyria and Central Lorain (cities near Cleveland) and I have had a gun in my face 2 times, Ive also been shot at nearly stabbed and jumped a few times. Our house and yard was also robbed at least 5 times. And Elyria and Lorain arent even really considered bad cities.

Your stats are wrong first of all. I dont want to say it but Cleveland is much worse than Cincinnati. Cincinnati was the 3rd poorest major city for only 1 year, before that I dont think it was ever even in the top 5. Cleveland has been the #1 poorest major city 3 separate years. Also Cleveland now has the highest unemployment rate of any big city in Ohio over 8%. The most murders Cincinnati ever had was 89, Cleveland had around 350 before, also the couple thousand missing people in the city which some were homicides. At a time when Cincinnati was averaging 40 homicides a year Cleveland was having 140+ a year. Also Cleveland had 135 last year and Cincinnati only had 60-some. Your also the first person I have ever heard say that Cincinnati was worse or even equal to Cleveland as far as how bad the city is. Im not trying to make Cleveland look bad, but the stats speak for themselves, its a really rough city. My main problem is that you talk like Cincinnati is the worst place in the country. Cincinnati is not that bad.