Future of West Price Hill? (Cincinnati, Washington: apartment, foreclosures, rent)

[new_to_town]

Ok, so I'm looking for a house. Some of you guys might remember that I just moved to Cincy in December and moved Downtown.

I really like living downtown, however, due to the logistics of hauling around equipment for my job, and my dog, I really need a place with a garage and a small yard. Because I have relatives that frequently visit, I also need a place with at least 2 bedrooms. So, with all that in mind, w/the housing market the way it is, I could really buy a place with the same as what I'd be paying in rent for that.

I have seen a good deal on a house in West Price Hill somewhat near Delhi, however I'm worried about the future of that area. While I think West Price Hill is ok now, it seems it is on the decline and with all the foreclosures in that area I think it might get worse (as far as property values and safety)?? Also, I'm the type that likes to go walk my dog and go jogging, and as a single woman living alone, worry about my safety if I jog into the wrong block, etc.

I could probably afford something on the east side, like maybe a fixer in Oakley, but wanted to get some people's opinions on West Price Hill before heading east. I think moving east I will lose the diversity of living downtown, however, I can't get what I'd need downtown as far as my living requirements, either. . .

Thanks!!
Amie

[goyguy]

Like a lot of city neighborhoods, and many suburban ones too, Price Hill has some blocks that are "good" and others that are "not so good." Put your potential house to the Saturday Night Test: Drive around the immediate area, or - better yet - take a stroll, at around 11-midnight on a Saturday. Does the street have a tranquil feel to it? Are other people out and about, and are they doing things like walking a dog or are they just hanging around? Is there much noise issuing forth from any of the houses? Many lights on? Do passing vehicles roll by quietly, or is music blasting? That time of the week is when you'll see a street at its worst, so if all seems good moving there would be a safe bet. You could also pay a visit on a sunny Sunday, when people are likely to be doing yard work or washing their cars. Cincinnatians tend to be friendly, particularly when you "look like them," and some chats with actual residents are the best way to gain a sense of what you'd be getting into.

I'd pass on buying a place unless you plan to own it for at least five years, after which there should be another upturn in the housing market. As far as settling in that part of town is concerned, it would depend somewhat on how far-reaching your jogs and dog walks are. Neighbors should be willing and able to tell you what sections to avoid and when, and it's not as though West Price Hill is an "oasis" surrounded by crime pits. Neither is it Mayberry itself, however. The same holds true in nearby Westwood: plenty of quiet, suburban-feeling streets with nice homes and long-term residents, but also some parts (particularly on the side closer in to town) that are sketchy at best. If I were in your shoes I'd just as soon take a rain check on the west side and focus on Northside, Mt Lookout, Pleasant Ridge, O'Bryonville, Winton Place, Kennedy Heights, Columbia-Tusculum, and Hartwell instead. All are in-city neighborhoods with decent housing stock and low crime rates.

[Ohiogirl81]

That area seems to differ block by block. Friends who live there have mixed reviews of their neighborhoods, and a couple have moved into Delhi (move out of St. William Parish?!?!? What were they thinking? LOL).

Goguy has some good suggestions for other neighborhoods. Westwood, around the Westwood Town Center, is a great neighborhood. Another area you might consider is my old 'hood, Madison Place, the portion of Madisonville/Columbia Township east of Plainville Road and north of Mariemont. I like to call it "Lower Indian Hill"; we do get their runoff. It's a very walkable neighborhood -- lots of people out in the mornings and in the evenigns -- and one of the most affordable in the city. Mariemont Square is within easy walking distance, so you can enjoy the square without paying the higher housing prices in Mariemont.

[new_to_town]

I like your "11-midnight" test. I do tend to drive around there at various times, and I guess my question was more: while it seems ok now, what would you predict West Price Hill would be like 2 or 5 years from now? Better, the same, or worse off? While many of the neighborhoods seem ok now, I wonder if a short-term good deal would end up being a long-term bad one.

I'm not worried about how long I live there. If the market hasn't come up by when I want to sell, I'll just rent it out until it does. I'm just wanting to be in a neighborhood that is currently safe, that will also recover with it's head above water when it's all said and done.

thanks!
Amie

[*Danielle*]

I would look in Covedale. They have some interesting cute little homes tucked away off the main drag. I think West Price Hill is going to need a while to bounce back... The thing with Price Hill is that there is a large community of people trying to 'save' it. Hopefully they can...

[goyguy]

Covedale's a good idea, as would be Cheviot.

I know it's a contradiction in terms, but I'm a cynic with an optimistic outlook. My belief is that Price Hill will land on both feet. There's much interest in reviving/restoring the section around where West 8th St and Glenway Ave begin their westward journeys from the top of the hill. Cincinnati Magazine, though it hypes the city out of necessity since that's why it exists, named West Price Hill as one of its "Ten Great Neighborhoods" last year. But the blurb did sound the same cautionary notes as I have - Shangri-La sometimes phases into Calcutta in the blink of an eye.

The Sunday Afternoon Test, corollary to the Saturday Night Test, should be a deciding factor. If it's a sunny breezy day and no one's in sight, that's saying something. People who have a stake in their community, and who care about their home and neighbors, tend to be visible on Sunday afternoons. Seemingly by osmosis, that gets communicated to those who would behave badly. I can speak to this from experience. My digs are in an urban, "culturally diverse" neighborhood. Our main street is congested and shabby, frequented by panhandling drunks and vagrants (poeticize them with "homeless" if you must) as well as shrieking obnoxious kids, teenagers, and college students of all hues. There's a housing project three blocks away. Yet when an apartment house on my block went on the market, the line of potential buyers extended around the corner and the place sold for well over the asking price during the first open house. I'm crowing over how the assessed value of my property has skyrocketed. All of this is thanks to how the people on my street are. Members of the same families have occupied some of the houses since they were built, between 1916 and 1930. For every unattached person only staying until they finish grad school, and every married couple that'll skedaddle once they have kids and those kids reach the age of 4, there are other households who are looking to stay put for keeps. I host a big cookout for friends and neighbors every August, "for something to do between the 4th of July and Labor Day." Other people on the street are always inviting folks over, sometimes spontaneously. You can perch on my front steps on a mild evening or a weekend day and "watch the world go by," getting the latest news from passersby the whole while. Yet there are occasional muggings as close as two blocks over, drug dealing goes on from houses and street corners nearby, etc etc. What this ramble is getting at is, NEIGHBORS MAKE A NEIGHBORHOOD. I love where I live. You stand a good chance of feeling the same way about setting up housekeeping in West Price Hill. The "Tests" hold the key.

[*Danielle*]

goyguy, where do you live??

[new_to_town]

Yeah, and actually the street I was thinking of buying a house on looks mostly ok - it's sort of the fact that I like to go jogging etc that a good "pocket" doesn't necessarily work out that well.

I do think neighbors make a neighborhood, but with all the foreclosures in West Price Hill - the area was hit very hard by predatory lending, sometimes you wonder who those neighbors will be in a year or two. A lot of those homeowners that did establish residences there for years and years, now are having to move out. I talked to a police officer in the area about it, who seemed to be more pessimistic about who was going to be moving back in... given it's vicinity to East and Lower Price Hill, where the crime rates are higher.

[goyguy]

Originally Posted by *Danielle*

goyguy, where do you live??

I grew up in Greater Cincinnati and make return trips throughout the year. But my home and life now are in Cambridge, Massachusetts. My neighborhood would be most comparable with the section of North Avondale that's minus the mansions (lol) except with a living breathing shopping district, or Pleasant Ridge/Kennedy Hts, or perhaps a more "integrated" minus-the-mansions part of Clifton. New Yorkers in Boston/Cambridge for college, or relocated for work, talk of making excursions to it because "it's the closest thing to an NYC neighborhood like Washington Hts or Park Slope" here. If that's any indication.

TMI?

[goyguy]

Originally Posted by new_to_town

Yeah, and actually the street I was thinking of buying a house on looks mostly ok - it's sort of the fact that I like to go jogging etc that a good "pocket" doesn't necessarily work out that well.

I do think neighbors make a neighborhood, but with all the foreclosures in West Price Hill - the area was hit very hard by predatory lending, sometimes you wonder who those neighbors will be in a year or two. A lot of those homeowners that did establish residences there for years and years, now are having to move out. I talked to a police officer in the area about it, who seemed to be more pessimistic about who was going to be moving back in... given it's vicinity to East and Lower Price Hill, where the crime rates are higher.

It's definitely a whole different scenario when you want to roam far and wide from the roost. Also, I have a much different perspective on what "feels safe" because of being male. The approaching of an unfamiliar man on a deserted sidewalk late at night doesn't faze me in the least, for one thing.

A lot of Cincinnati's "cultural" tensions stem from attitudes, and many West Siders are less than warm to anybody who isn't of German stock (also Italian, in West Price Hill) and Catholic to the core. Open enrollment in the Cincinnati schools, which brought scores of AA kids to formerly lily-White Western Hills High School, didn't sit well with these folks one bit. Neither has the ongoing diversifying of practically the entire neighborhood. And as much as noses were looked down at Lower Price Hill (not only because of physical elevation), that section is reviled more than ever now that its po-white Appalachians have been mostly replaced by Spanish-speaking immigrants. A good number of the city's "finest" are forgivably (or unforgivably) clueless about anybody who doesn't look or think like them; plus, those who are native West Siders are prone to be angry and cynical about how their area's changed. It's caused many and lasting difficulties in Cincinnati. All of which is to say, I'd take the material from a statistics list over the word of a street cop who could be the greatest and fairest human on the force - or could not be. Drop by the district police station on your next visit and ask for a printout of reported crimes on and near the street you're thinking about buying on. Pro-integration urban progressive that I am, I still order friends contemplating a move to a questionable area to do that. One couple backed right out of purchasing a house they were "in love with" once they ordered a stat sheet from the local constables and were shown a binder three inches thick!

The crime-stats list and the Saturday/Sunday tests - those three things ought to settle the matter once and for all if the tests alone won't.