Grave Mistake!

[hillside]

crew chief,

thanks for the reply. i do think we'll eventually agree to disagree though. asians on average have a higher level of education than some other groups, including white. i think the highest to lowest median income is something like, asian, indian (asia), white, hispanic, black. asians do have a different family structure than most, but all non-american cultures do. many hispanics have a non-american family structure, but that hasn't kept the majority of them out of poverty. not to say asians and hispanics living in america aren't american, but that essentially whites and blacks are the groups that formed american ideals and american family structure because they dominated in population for 200 years.

character is how we view individual americans, but group philosophies are known to be dangerous. one may meet an intelligent, hard working black person and think highly of them, but see the news showing youth hanging on the corner and assume that the individual they met was merely an abberation. one of the "good ones".

blacks built a large portion of this country's infrastructure and culture, for free. that's hardworking. they were then released into abject poverty with no education, blatantly racist laws against them, and a terrorist group (kkk) running them out of the south with the aid of government officials. we even had woodrow wilson praising d.w. griffith's racist movie the birth of a nation. he said it was like "lightning caught in a bottle". he was correct all right...

blacks in northern cities lived in shanty slums until the cities moved them to brick slums. then to public housing slums in the 1930's and roosevelt. holistically, has the condition improved that dramatically?

social security laws excluded many agricultural classifications, one of the few things blacks were actually trained in. housing laws stopped blacks from getting loans, and still does. at the first sight of blacks gaining upward social mobility, whites bailed on the city centers and fled to the burbs. blacks all of a sudden are 50 percent or better of the population in the detroit's, cleveland's, cincinnati's and baltimore's and still will be underrepresented as an economic force in downtown projects like the banks, the flats, inner harbor, etc.

it is not because blacks don't have ambition, or are lazy. it's because the game is rigged. was, is, and always will be. it took 100 years after slavery ended to get black kids in the same classroom as white kids. that's five generations of little to no education, well paying jobs, and a lot of jim crow politics and laws that weren't and aren't fair. blacks are not blameless. but it's a lot to recover from considering all that has happened since. soon blacks got in the classroom, the service economy fails. then heroin spikes. then cocaine. then crack. then reagan's jails, laws and trickle down economics. 3 pointless wars, if you don't count money and or oil as a vaild point. that's alot of financial stress on the middle and lower class. america funded the growing of poppy during vietnam. CONTRA and the cia flew in cocaine in the late 70's and through the 80's. then the government turns around and beefs up the laws and locks up the same people they sold the drugs to, and builds the jails to do such a thing. sounds like entrapment.

no education = crime. so why would you form a three strike law? the people making, enforcing and supporting these laws are very well educated. they can put 2 and 2 together. many blacks and hispanics are poor and uneducated. many blacks and hispanics will go to jail for life.

the prison industrial complex has EXPLODED since reagan and through clinton. 22,000 black males in ohio are in prison. 20,000 are in college.

cincinnati is the perfect place to discuss politics and controversy. the same city that tore down half of the west end, the heart of black cincinnati, and at the time, one of the hearts of black america ala harlem, in favor of a highway. not only did that highway cause massive problems between blacks and the city and within the blacks of cincinnati, but it cut off downtown from the westside and the west end. downtown, the west end and the westside have never been the same since. the city that built one of the biggest public houising projects in history. cincinnati built laurel homes housing project downtown (the smokestacks) at the specific request of fdr. in 1938 he cited cincinnati's slums as shameful and an american embarrassment, as cincy was the last city to tear down their traditional shanty slums. the megablocks of public housing disrupted the street grid and left a centrally located neighborhood isolated, sort of like our riverfront....cincinnati has had more riots and civil unrest since 1800 than any other city at 16. cops run wild in the city and retain their jobs. black cincinnati is as disenfranchised as any blacks in any city in america. for a city rich in black history and milestones, a city of innovation, it sure is an old money, good ol boy town.

and whatever activists said that crack law was a good idea may be smoking it regardless of race....

"getting education" or a decent job isn't easy when the educational system is beyond screwed if you don't have any money to begin with. even if you do, it still sucks for a bunch of reasons that don't translate economically (teaching methods, etc). decent jobs for those without a degree ain't been around since the 70's, shortly before the jail building moneymaking frenzy, which was during reagan's war on drugs and his trickle down economics that officially put corporations over people for good.

go ahead GM, outsource to mexico and leave the pittsburgh/cleveland/cincinnati/detroit pipeline behind. it's okay. the more money that lines your pockets, the better for the city center and the country.

you see the problems are cyclical.

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by hillside

crew chief,

thanks for the reply. i do think we'll eventually agree to disagree though. asians on average have a higher level of education than some other groups, including white. i think the highest to lowest median income is something like, asian, indian (asia), white, hispanic, black. asians do have a different family structure than most, but all non-american cultures do. many hispanics have a non-american family structure, but that hasn't kept the majority of them out of poverty. not to say asians and hispanics living in america aren't american, but that essentially whites and blacks are the groups that formed american ideals and american family structure because they dominated in population for 200 years.

character is how we view individual americans, but group philosophies are known to be dangerous. one may meet an intelligent, hard working black person and think highly of them, but see the news showing youth hanging on the corner and assume that the individual they met was merely an abberation. one of the "good ones".

blacks built a large portion of this country's infrastructure and culture, for free. that's hardworking. they were then released into abject poverty with no education, blatantly racist laws against them, and a terrorist group (kkk) running them out of the south with the aid of government officials. we even had woodrow wilson praising d.w. griffith's racist movie the birth of a nation. he said it was like "lightning caught in a bottle". he was correct all right...

blacks in northern cities lived in shanty slums until the cities moved them to brick slums. then to public housing slums in the 1930's and roosevelt. holistically, has the condition improved that dramatically?

social security laws excluded many agricultural classifications, one of the few things blacks were actually trained in. housing laws stopped blacks from getting loans, and still does. at the first sight of blacks gaining upward social mobility, whites bailed on the city centers and fled to the burbs. blacks all of a sudden are 50 percent or better of the population in the detroit's, cleveland's, cincinnati's and baltimore's and still will be underrepresented as an economic force in downtown projects like the banks, the flats, inner harbor, etc.

it is not because blacks don't have ambition, or are lazy. it's because the game is rigged. was, is, and always will be. it took 100 years after slavery ended to get black kids in the same classroom as white kids. that's five generations of little to no education, well paying jobs, and a lot of jim crow politics and laws that weren't and aren't fair. blacks are not blameless. but it's a lot to recover from considering all that has happened since. soon blacks got in the classroom, the service economy fails. then heroin spikes. then cocaine. then crack. then reagan's jails, laws and trickle down economics. 3 pointless wars, if you don't count money and or oil as a vaild point. that's alot of financial stress on the middle and lower class. america funded the growing of poppy during vietnam. CONTRA and the cia flew in cocaine in the late 70's and through the 80's. then the government turns around and beefs up the laws and locks up the same people they sold the drugs to, and builds the jails to do such a thing. sounds like entrapment.

no education = crime. so why would you form a three strike law? the people making, enforcing and supporting these laws are very well educated. they can put 2 and 2 together. many blacks and hispanics are poor and uneducated. many blacks and hispanics will go to jail for life.

the prison industrial complex has EXPLODED since reagan and through clinton. 22,000 black males in ohio are in prison. 20,000 are in college.

cincinnati is the perfect place to discuss politics and controversy. the same city that tore down half of the west end, the heart of black cincinnati, and at the time, one of the hearts of black america ala harlem, in favor of a highway. not only did that highway cause massive problems between blacks and the city and within the blacks of cincinnati, but it cut off downtown from the westside and the west end. downtown, the west end and the westside have never been the same since. the city that built one of the biggest public houising projects in history. cincinnati built laurel homes housing project downtown (the smokestacks) at the specific request of fdr. in 1938 he cited cincinnati's slums as shameful and an american embarrassment, as cincy was the last city to tear down their traditional shanty slums. the megablocks of public housing disrupted the street grid and left a centrally located neighborhood isolated, sort of like our riverfront....cincinnati has had more riots and civil unrest since 1800 than any other city at 16. cops run wild in the city and retain their jobs. black cincinnati is as disenfranchised as any blacks in any city in america. for a city rich in black history and milestones, a city of innovation, it sure is an old money, good ol boy town.

and whatever activists said that crack law was a good idea may be smoking it regardless of race....

"getting education" or a decent job isn't easy when the educational system is beyond screwed if you don't have any money to begin with. even if you do, it still sucks for a bunch of reasons that don't translate economically (teaching methods, etc). decent jobs for those without a degree ain't been around since the 70's, shortly before the jail building moneymaking frenzy, which was during reagan's war on drugs and his trickle down economics that officially put corporations over people for good.

go ahead GM, outsource to mexico and leave the pittsburgh/cleveland/cincinnati/detroit pipeline behind. it's okay. the more money that lines your pockets, the better for the city center and the country.

you see the problems are cyclical.

Hello Hillside! One of my wife's biggest frustrations in her classroom (he teaches at a middle school) is "Asians and Europeans have a higher level of education than we do". Well, SO WHAT!!! Why doesn't that motivate them to study harder and be highly educated, too. The defeatest attitude is what frustrates her (and me, as well) I understand the "group identity" thing. But I'll never get the "my friends hang out in the streets and smoke crack, so I gotta do that, too..." I'm sure that far more Americans than the media would have us believe don't believe in stereotypes about any race (it always seems like the stupid onesget the airplay...) Just like reprters always find the dumbest, most poorly-dressed trucker in the lot to ask about the industry)

Hillside, I can truly appreciate history. And believe we can all learn from it. But I never owned slaves and I'm willing to bet you aren't old enough to have been one. So that means that we both need to look forward and not let the past hold us back. As for blacks having difficulty getting home loans, I believe that creditworthyness not color was (and is) the reason for that. If you are in the mortgage business and want to make money (and I'm sure you would), why on earth would you lend money to someone with poor credit ?(i.e. an inability to manage their money) I don't care what color you are; if I thought you were a good credit risk, I'd darn sure lend you money to improve my income...

I honestly believe that "White Flight" was as much about being with people that share the same values as you do. Yes, it's human nature to want to surround yourself with people that are much like you.

Perhaps the social programs such as those FDR and even LBJ instituted did more harm than good. I do see the injustices here in Cincinnati (and elsewhere in America). But I think the game has always been rigged by the rich guys to take advantage of the rest of us (no matter what color) It's up to us to get off our duffs and fight back. As long as we let 'em divide and conquer, it'll always be that way. I know we could go on forever. And I understand your frustration as well as feel like my views are reasonably well-thought-out after 53 years of going through life with my eyes and ears wide open. Thanks, Hillside!

[CO to CINCI]

Could we get an update on the original poster? I'm assuming if he or she signed a lease, the lease would be up by now, or perhaps the poster bought out the lease early (as money wasn't an object).

Well, hopefully the original poster has found a place that meets his or her personal needs, but an update would be interesting, seeing as how this post is still provoking conversation 14 months later!

[lydunn]

hahaha I have to agree I said the same thing about 2 weeks ago...WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL GOING BACK AND FORTH the op hasn't been on here in forever...Once again people embrace change and move on ALREADY

Originally Posted by CO to CINCI

Could we get an update on the original poster? I'm assuming if he or she signed a lease, the lease would be up by now, or perhaps the poster bought out the lease early (as money wasn't an object).

Well, hopefully the original poster has found a place that meets his or her personal needs, but an update would be interesting, seeing as how this post is still provoking conversation 14 months later!

[Heaveno]

This new knowledge that people want to share that is evidently not addressing the original thread, should be one that is started on a new one. I enjoy reading about how people feel about past and present ongoing institutional racism, which one person alone cannot change.

Oh!! Just to think that if blacks were brought over to the new world and paid for their hard labor, how would Black America look today for their present generations.

[Bigbluelandrover]

Hillside,
Thanks for some of that historical information. My grandmother moved to Laurel Homes in the 1930's after my grandfather died from pneumonia (working in a cold packing house killed him). She was a widow before 'benefits' were given out. She qualifyied for assistance and moved into what is not referred to as the projects. My mom remember living there during a time when people were working and trying to get ahead. During this time many of the programs that assisted families-did not help if the man was in the home. Many in my mothers generation were able to move out of those areas and into the older outer ring suburbs live Avondale and Mt Auburn.

My uncle was one of the first black black male graduates from UC and he had a business in Over the Rhine. His name is on a statue downtown where Laurel Homes used to be.

[danadanielle]

I am sorry to hear this. I am from dallas. I have been here long enough to know never to live there. I am African American middle class. I'm definitely not rich but I am doing ok. That area is very racist, uneducated and rude. It's sad that they really believe they are well off and they are better than we are. My daughter goes to school in Blue Ash because it is very diverse. You want to choose areas like Blue Ash, Montgomery, Deer Park, maybe even Kenwood. These places are diverse and although they have a lot of white people they seem to be very kind and down to earth. I can't afford to live in these areas yet because I am saving for a house. ButI do all of my shopping in Blue Ash. Oh also Hyde Park and Oakley is nice.

Originally Posted by The_Reeds

I recently accepted a job that, required me to live in Ohio, they didn't care where as long as it was close to a major city. Being from Atlanta, I wanted to hold on to the south so I chose Cincinnati. I think I made a mistake, I am African American, middle class, doing pretty good financially. I chose to rent instead of buying as I wanted to learn the area first. So I looked around and tryed to find a safe neighborhood, and good schools for my kids. I chose Anderson Township, but what I didn't realize was we would be the only African American Family, where I live. Me and my wife are terrified, the white people around look at us and treat us like second class citizens. Even though I have the most expensive car, and probably make more money than any of them, I feel like the enemy. Cincinnati is a disappointing city, because of its deep racial divides. We take our daugther across town, to a more diverse day care even though its out of our way, thats a shame to have to do that. I regret signing my lease, and regret moving to a city that is touted as one of the best, but actually is one with the most problems. If your African American don't stop on the lower west side!

[jkratze1]

Since "The Reeds" have not posted since 2006, I'm assuming they no longer live here. However if they do, I'd recommend looking at Deerfield Township in Warren County. I'm living in an apartment in this area and it is the most diverse area I have ever lived in. We have white, black, asian, and middle eastern residents all living here.