People say Cincy hasn't changed...but it has. (Cincinnati: crimes, home)

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

Hillside, how do you feel about this article?:

Cincinnati closes the book on 2001 race riots - Nation - Wire - Kentucky.com

I heard about that...that's big news that kinda got lost in the holidays, I guess. Cincinnati media, do this to yourselves . The thing is, they said CPD and city leadership was sound and exemplary in 1924, and 1974, and in 2000. If there's one thing I will be stubborn about, it is maintaining that the Cincinnati Police Department does not change. It is, at times, the thermometer of city leadership, and the latent effects thrust upon the city. In times such as these, it is operating quietly, adjusting to the new rules just as a downtown hustler pushed to Price Hill.

[goyguy]

h-side, I remember (vaguely) when Peebles Corner was hoppin'. I didn't exist until after the streetcar tracks were paved over, but McMillan and Gilbert was a beehive of activity well into the '60s. There was a huge Woolworth's, and the rising middle class was catered to by businesses like Jones the Florist (now in EAST Walnut Hills, thank you) and Palette Studios. Also before my time, the Alms Hotel on Victory Pkwy was a destination for weekend dances with a live jazz band. Now at least half the building's gone (with a McDonald's on some of the old property) and what's left is subsidized housing of some kind.
8th and State was always "Lower (said with a sneer) Price Hill" in my span of memory. But most of the people there spoke Appalachian English ("Whurzat at?") instead of Spanish.
Before Queensgate was Queensgate there had to be massive "urban removal" first. What I can't wrap my brain around - yet - is how Crosley Field and the whole area between there and Union Terminal got bulldozed in favor of lil' square storage buildings and offices. Once upon a time there was a complete community there.
The common factor in all these cases goes back to what I rambled about earlier. People's incomes grew and tastes changed, the perception of the old neighborhood changed to "slum," and the only folks left were those with no alternative. Then the housing was demolished, or converted for Section 8 rentals, and howls got louder even though the area was heading downhill already. But this was all going on well before the '90s.
Crazy thought, but we all might live to see the day when Mason and Green Twp and Union (KY) are dodged like the plague and all their Dreesvilles and McMansions are sheltering the downtrodden - while everybody with a choice battles to grab their piece of the city. "They're not making any more land," after all.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by goyguy

What I can't wrap my brain around - yet - is how Crosley Field and the whole area between there and Union Terminal got bulldozed in favor of lil' square storage buildings and offices. Once upon a time there was a complete community there.

We can thank the construction of I-75 for that. Another example of how "progress" is not always progressive for everyone.

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by goyguy

h-side, I remember (vaguely) when Peebles Corner was hoppin'. I didn't exist until after the streetcar tracks were paved over, but McMillan and Gilbert was a beehive of activity well into the '60s. There was a huge Woolworth's, and the rising middle class was catered to by businesses like Jones the Florist (now in EAST Walnut Hills, thank you) and Palette Studios.

I think that there were two incidents in the late sixties that really affected Walnut Hills. First, in 1967, one of the flashpoints of the riots occurred within a mile or so of Peebles Corner. After that point, a lot of the small "mom and pop" stores in that area closed and were replaced by the usual money lending/pawn shops etc. that still remain there today. This process took place in the period of 1967-1980.

Also, in 1965-66, you had the "Cincinnati Strangler" prowling that area. There were a number of women who used to head to the Alms or to the YMCA on McMillan who stopped heading into that neighborhood.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by jstn

Actually, you may be on target here. According to the interactive chart for 2008 murders presented on cincinnati.com (Interactive: Deadly Streets | Cincinnati Enquirer | Cincinnati.Com), there were murders in 22 different neighborhoods. Sure, some of these are probably domestic cases, so the overall safety wouldn't necessarily be comprimised...unless you are the wife. But still, that's a lot of neighborhoods being effected.

And the number of neighborhoods affected lends itself -- incorrectly or otherwise -- to the overall perception some people harbor that the city is not safe.

Originally Posted by goyguy

I think that eventually more neighborhoods will "bounce back" or stay OK than not. Who knows, the next cool thing may be to rent a picture-windowed one-bedroom in a brick box from 1948 - stranger things have happened.

I think you're right about that. Cincinnati has an incredible amount of decent, attractive and affordable housing that even the decades of neglect in some areas will not wipe out completely. City living in smaller dwellings will become attractive again when, inevitably, transportation becomes prohibitively expensive.

Now I'm singing The Talking Heads' "Nothing But Flowers." LOL

[jstn]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

I think you're right about that. Cincinnati has an incredible amount of decent, attractive and affordable housing that even the decades of neglect in some areas will not wipe out completely. City living in smaller dwellings will become attractive again when, inevitably, transportation becomes prohibitively expensive.

That's a very good point. goyguy was also right when he mentioned the "next cool thing".

Fortunately, for Cincinnati, because of the neighborhoods and cool architecture as mentioned before, the concept of urbanizing oneself is now in full effect. The trend for young professionals, even those with families, to move into older, somewhat rundown areas and begin the gentrifying process is beginning to appear once again. I do believe in bad economic times, especially when transportation and gas resources are questionable at best, places like Cincinnati, with a true, densely, urban core, will benefit the most.

Perhaps, as time goes by, the urban core will begin to see the reversing effects of the so-called "white flight" (truthfully, even black people with the means fled for the suburbs just as quickly). With this comes less crime per capita, which eventually leads to a reclaiming of their town by the lawful citizens.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

We can thank the construction of I-75 for that. Another example of how "progress" is not always progressive for everyone.

This is an understatement!

Did you guys ever see that old aerial I posted of the West End? Talk about 5 Points (NYC) eat your heart out. Sheesh!

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by jstn

That's a very good point. goyguy was also right when he mentioned the "next cool thing".

Fortunately, for Cincinnati, because of the neighborhoods and cool architecture as mentioned before, the concept of urbanizing oneself is now in full effect. The trend for young professionals, even those with families, to move into older, somewhat rundown areas and begin the gentrifying process is beginning to appear once again. I do believe in bad economic times, especially when transportation and gas resources are questionable at best, places like Cincinnati, with a true, densely, urban core, will benefit the most.

Perhaps, as time goes by, the urban core will begin to see the reversing effects of the so-called "white flight" (truthfully, even black people with the means fled for the suburbs just as quickly). With this comes less crime per capita, which eventually leads to a reclaiming of their town by the lawful citizens.

As a Realtor I can confirm this by first-party involvement!

All one has to do is attend one of Towne Properties Monthly get-togethers Downtown to see the Generation X-ers, Y-ers, and Millennials.

I'm seeing a lot of black wealthy folks buying up "gas light-like" houses in Mt. Auburn, fixing them up and turning the neighborhood around tremendously! Reminds me of Harlem ... Sure, there's white investment and developers coming in now, but the trend was started by wealthy blacks investing back into their neighborhood.

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by jstn

Fortunately, for Cincinnati, because of the neighborhoods and cool architecture as mentioned before, the concept of urbanizing oneself is now in full effect. The trend for young professionals, even those with families, to move into older, somewhat rundown areas and begin the gentrifying process is beginning to appear once again. I do believe in bad economic times, especially when transportation and gas resources are questionable at best, places like Cincinnati, with a true, densely, urban core, will benefit the most.

While I have lived in "inner city" areas most of my life, as I get older, dealing with the crime and general neglect that you get in those areas no longer holds the allure that it once did.

Personally, I do NOT see a lot of families moving into those areas. I see a lot of childless couples, empty nesters, and gay couple moving into city areas. Part of the problem are the schools. Most of the young couples may live in the city when they are first marry but want to move to a place with better schools once their children reach school age.

One of my friends told me that when he considered all the taxes and expenses of private or parochial systems in the city, that it was cheaper for his family to live in Anderson than to remain in Oakley.

[jstn]

Originally Posted by jlawrence01

While I have lived in "inner city" areas most of my life, as I get older, dealing with the crime and general neglect that you get in those areas no longer holds the allure that it once did.

Personally, I do NOT see a lot of families moving into those areas. I see a lot of childless couples, empty nesters, and gay couple moving into city areas. Part of the problem are the schools. Most of the young couples may live in the city when they are first marry but want to move to a place with better schools once their children reach school age.

One of my friends told me that when he considered all the taxes and expenses of private or parochial systems in the city, that it was cheaper for his family to live in Anderson than to remain in Oakley.

I whole-heartedly agree with your first comment. People that love urban living are so quick to throw stones at people that prefer to relocate in the suburbs. But truth is, many people simply don't want to put up with the BS that occurs in an urban environment; crime, beggars, less desirables, etc..

I too am one of those that fled. I am not ashamed to admit that I am the token black guy living in a mostly white suburb. Do I miss the diversity, the hustle and bustle, the excitement of the city? Sure I do, but not nearly as much as I enjoy the peace of mind knowing that my children can safely play outside with their friends, or if I leave my garage door open when I return my tools will still be there, or that when I lay down at night the only sirens I hear are an occasional ambulance. Some on here may say BORING, but when you bring lives into this world, your perspective often changes.

Anyways, when I mentioned families moving to the urban areas again, I wasn't necessarily talking about Cincy, but in general terms. But typically what does happen, as you mentioned a few childless or gay couples will move in, gentrify, followed by a few more. And before you know it, you have a pretty nice little transformation that has taken place. Then, the neighborhood becomes much more desirable to families and alike. The home values are now increased considerably and consumed by upper-middle to upper class (socio-economically) people that thrive for city life, yet in a clean, safe environment that won't even blink at paying tuition at a private school. I have witnessed this first-hand in my adoptive city. Homes and neighborhoods that were once considered less desirable are now thriving communities. But it takes time, and more importantly it takes people that are willing to weather the storm during the transition phase.

I personally am not one of those storm weatherers...so now I'm about to drop $500k on a house in an urban area that I could have gotten 8 years ago for about $100K I promise...I'm smarter than I appear.

Anyways, I just think with Cincy's uniqueness within it's GREAT neighborhood structure, we could easily see an influx in families that actually desire the urban living as opposed to fleeing to the burbs. It will take time, but national trends tend to lean in that direction right now. The keys in my opinion to this vision would be continued recruitment of young professional transplants and...I hate to continue to beat a dead horse, but a fully operative lightrail/ streetcar system.

In my eyes, Cincy is at a cross roads right now. Which direction will it go? Will it continue to spiral downwards or will it lift itself up and regain it's prestige as one of the greatest North American cities? I personally like to think the latter. Yes time and effort is needed, but I agree with Cincy-Rise and his trillion posts that are all alike, Cincy is not as far away as many people, including myself at times, think.