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Old 01-14-2009, 10:09 AM
 
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Restorationconsultant, I'm hoping that you could elaborate more on your above comments. I had noticed TONS of buildings for sale in OTR, especially North of Liberty and near Findley Market. However, I've only seen the listings online and I haven't toured any in person. Are they simply too far gone to restore? It's a shame because there really are a lot of available buildings that are Findley Market-near. In the back of my mind, I figured the structures must be poor candidates for renovation, but I'd be interested in hearing more details if you have them.

As for 3CDC's bank of buildings, I have mixed feelings. On one hand I totally agree with you: It would be ideal if they re-sell their buildings to qualified renovators. Vacant buildings are inferior to rehabbed buildings.

On the other hand, don't underestimate the positive impact of eliminating bad elements from the neighborhood. I'm sure this is a politically unpopular opinion, but eliminating low income units is probably a per se improvement for OTR right now, even if they remain vacant for awhile. For OTR to truly rebound, its poverty rates need to reflect the overall region (10-20%) instead of the 90%+ it used to be.

The fact that 3CDC has bought up builings that unscrupulous investors might have otherwise rented out to druggies, sex offenders, and felons is a huge boon to the neighborhood - and the reduction of the criminal element is making the Gateway Quarter's success possible.

But yeah. It would certainly be better if they would resell some of their building stock to people with a vision. I certainly share your desire to rehab something in OTR, but I haven't had the courage to make that leap yet.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by restorationconsultant View Post
I think a lot of opinion on OTR depend on where you are coming from and your midset, Todays 20 something's who grew up in the burbs find OTR attractive because it is Urban, and not the burbs. Findlay Market is something most cities would "die to have" and in my opinion the only thing holding the neighborhood back is the unavailability of property to buy. 3CDC owns everything and while they have done some great projects, but they own more property than in the greatest of economies they could restore in 20 years. These properies will fall down before they can be restored and I wish 3cdc would start releasing them fo sale, OR, the city would hold 3CDC to the same standard of appearance they hold everyone else to and make them put on roofs, fix windows that sort of thing.

I looked in OTR and every thing I would have bought and wanted to restore was owned by 3CDC. In my opinion the city needs to get away from the idea that only certain 'preffered developers' can revitilize OTR. The city needs to make 3cdc shake loose some of these buildings that are currents 2-4 units sitting vacant for redevelopment as single family homes or mixed work/home development. 3CDC has both 'saved' the neighborhood, but at the same time 'slowed down" its recovery.

It takes people moving in and restoring to 'make' OTR not 2-3 prefferrd developers who can only realistically do so many projects a year.

I would have loved to have bought in OTR there just wasnt anything to buy.
Great insight and post ... Cincinnati welcomes people like you with open arms!

Question, have you tried contacting 3CDC?
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis and Cincinnati
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Joe, we are looking around Findlay for a location for our design center and antiques business. Ive looked at a few buildings that were doable , but mostly owned by "investor types" who are asking exhorbitant prices thinking if they let them go far enough down that 3 CDC will buy them to protect their own investment. There are one or two that may work for us if I can make the numbers work on the restoration costs.

In my opinion 3cdc needs to start a "restoration land bank" perhaps list one or two properties on a block where they own several, sell them with protective covenants requiring restoration and permits and owner occupancy and pre qualify the buyers. If you can get 1 or 2 restoration going on a block then their own projects become more viable . It is great, the work they are doing, "marching up main street" as it were, but its time to let some properties go on Race Vine and some of the side streets and let some restoration begin.
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:14 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,409,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by restorationconsultant View Post
Joe, we are looking around Findlay for a location for our design center and antiques business. Ive looked at a few buildings that were doable , but mostly owned by "investor types" who are asking exhorbitant prices thinking if they let them go far enough down that 3 CDC will buy them to protect their own investment. There are one or two that may work for us if I can make the numbers work on the restoration costs.

In my opinion 3cdc needs to start a "restoration land bank" perhaps list one or two properties on a block where they own several, sell them with protective covenants requiring restoration and permits and owner occupancy and pre qualify the buyers. If you can get 1 or 2 restoration going on a block then their own projects become more viable . It is great, the work they are doing, "marching up main street" as it were, but its time to let some properties go on Race Vine and some of the side streets and let some restoration begin.
It seems to me that 3CDC is letting the population deflate on Elm Street. Those vacant buildings that are well secured (as opposed to vacant buildings that host crack heads) create a big negative to the remainder of the neighborhood. No little stores, pals out on the sidewalk, etc. So people will slowly relocate out of the area. And, getting the drug addicted vermin out is all that is needed to make OTR the great area it can be.
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:39 PM
 
2,204 posts, read 5,843,647 times
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Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
It seems to me that 3CDC is letting the population deflate on Elm Street. Those vacant buildings that are well secured (as opposed to vacant buildings that host crack heads) create a big negative to the remainder of the neighborhood. No little stores, pals out on the sidewalk, etc. So people will slowly relocate out of the area. And, getting the drug addicted vermin out is all that is needed to make OTR the great area it can be.
...... BUT .... we need to take care of our own. We need to get these folks into programs that help.

There are countless ex-millionaires that fund organizations for the homeless that were once homeless themselves, because they lost everything. A reminder that it can happen to anyone of us. Homelessness and drug addiction is not something we plan for.
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise View Post
...... BUT .... we need to take care of our own. We need to get these folks into programs that help.

There are countless ex-millionaires that fund organizations for the homeless that were once homeless themselves, because they lost everything. A reminder that it can happen to anyone of us. Homelessness and drug addiction is not something we plan for.

Enabling drug and alcohol addicts is not a good thing. And, programs don't work. What works is that the alcoholic or addict runs out of options. They reach their low point. The program folks, like the ill advised Franciscans in OTR are the problem. They hand out just enough junk food to keep these folks going so that they can hang around until they can break into your car, steal your cell phone, sell it for $5 to a drug dealer and buy a small rock of crack. Remove the "safety net" and most of these addicts will beg for help.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:10 PM
 
2,204 posts, read 5,843,647 times
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Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Enabling drug and alcohol addicts is not a good thing. And, programs don't work. What works is that the alcoholic or addict runs out of options. They reach their low point. The program folks, like the ill advised Franciscans in OTR are the problem. They hand out just enough junk food to keep these folks going so that they can hang around until they can break into your car, steal your cell phone, sell it for $5 to a drug dealer and buy a small rock of crack. Remove the "safety net" and most of these addicts will beg for help.
I agree that handouts don't work, that's why I don't hand out money.

... but a lot of homeless and addicts don't live in shelters or take advantage of of free shelter/food. I guess it's easy to suggest what works and doesn't work sitting behind our computers in our heated homes, sipping on hot coffee, with a fridge full of food isn't it?
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:58 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,409,188 times
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Sorry, I should have qualified myself a little. I work with a lot of alcoholics and just when they seem ready to surrender, along comes some program oriented do-gooder and they're out and running for another year or two.

Really, the only thing that works is in-patient intensive alcohol treatment, and even that is a 10%-20& proposition. And, with the cost of inpatient treatment, there is no hope to revive those programs.

The Franciscans, along with the DIC and the Free Store maintain a community of homeless addicts at subsistence levels in OTR and its just a shame.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:08 PM
 
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Back to the issue of OTR. I work in OTR and really enjoy the charm of it. I renovated a 140 year old row house and work out of it. Its a great place to be. Hopefully, there will be no return of the bars and clubs and eventually it will stablize as a residential neighborhood. 3CDC has a vision which is overly optimistic but probably not harmful.

There are alot of nice buildings available on the east side of OTR which is much nicer than the west side. East 13th, Broadway, Sycamore, Orchard, EAst 12th, Spring, parts of Pendleton, etc. It may take a while but there are really cool spaces over there.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:27 PM
 
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I also live and the area and when I hear that you live in OTR, it makes my respect of your opinion higher.

Like I said earlier, when you read about folks that went from being millionaires to rock-bottom, that in itself speaks volumes. Bad things happen to good people, that's life and sometimes the situation is so extreme, it leaves the person homeless.

There is no concrete answer to social issues such as the ones we're discussing ... if there were, the US wouldn't have this problem.
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