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Old 01-30-2009, 11:41 AM
 
710 posts, read 2,652,682 times
Reputation: 149

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jersey_too_expensive View Post
Amen! The city struggles with maintaining its existing infrastructure and adding streetcars to the mix just doesn't make economic sense at this time. There are plenty of other issues to address first. P-R-I-O-R-I-T-I-Z-E.
You are absolutely correct about prioritization, that is why we should build the streetcar now. We need to start with the projects that have the highest returns on investment and use those returns to fund projects with lower returns on investment.

Invest first in the projects that create the most economic development, which will give the City more revenue to fund other projects. The Banks is underway, the new tallest building is underway, in 2009, I know of no other project in the city that would have a greater economic impact than the streetcar.
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:42 PM
 
62 posts, read 270,542 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlrosen View Post
You are absolutely correct about prioritization, that is why we should build the streetcar now. We need to start with the projects that have the highest returns on investment and use those returns to fund projects with lower returns on investment.

Invest first in the projects that create the most economic development, which will give the City more revenue to fund other projects. The Banks is underway, the new tallest building is underway, in 2009, I know of no other project in the city that would have a greater economic impact than the streetcar.
I'm not anti-streetcar, and I understand where you're coming from -- but you have to admit it is a HUGE gamble -- and if a mistake is made, it could be the final nail in the coffin for this city. That's not a gamble I'd be willing to take right now (witness the Paul Brown stadium deal).

I get that the city can't solve all of its problems on its own -- it needs outside investment. But I think the money could be spent more wisely -- the streetcar proposal is too small to make any significant impact -- with the exception of helping improve property values for those who reside/own property along the planned route. Do you fall into this category?
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:53 PM
 
710 posts, read 2,652,682 times
Reputation: 149
I work Downtown and do not own any property, I also do not work in the real estate or construction/development industry
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Old 01-30-2009, 01:45 PM
 
710 posts, read 2,652,682 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jersey_too_expensive View Post
I'm not anti-streetcar, and I understand where you're coming from -- but you have to admit it is a HUGE gamble -- and if a mistake is made, it could be the final nail in the coffin for this city. That's not a gamble I'd be willing to take right now (witness the Paul Brown stadium deal).

I get that the city can't solve all of its problems on its own -- it needs outside investment. But I think the money could be spent more wisely -- the streetcar proposal is too small to make any significant impact -- with the exception of helping improve property values for those who reside/own property along the planned route. Do you fall into this category?
It isn't a huge gamble at all. If a casino offered these odds, they would last a day.

If you haven't read the Economic Analysis, I would like you to guess what percentage chance the Streetcar's benefits will exceed its costs.
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:27 PM
 
2,204 posts, read 5,851,282 times
Reputation: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by jersey_too_expensive View Post
Have you ever even left Cincinnati? Have you ever been to New Jersey? I am weary of Cincinnati rah-rahs like yourself who post snarky comments in response to anyone who presents an opposing viewpoint. There are things wrong with this city -- plenty of them -- and until you acknowledge those it is hard to take you seriously. In terms of the streetcar project, I'm not opposed to restoring something the city once had -- but it is hardly a priority. Tell me: do you live along or near the proposed route? Do you own property whose value would increase if the streetcar plan was implemented?
Look, Jersey ... I'm not your enemy here.

You're the one that brought up the malls.

I've said it a million times on here (look at "all post" by Cincy-Rise) that I've lived somewhere else before and if I had my Flickr account up and running, you'd see the cities that I travel too... which is the main reason why I love this city.

The streetcar is an investment for this city in terms of long-term, not short term.
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Hartwell--IN THE City of Cincinnati
1,055 posts, read 3,567,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Where are those car barns in Hartwell? Are they on Caldwell Drive?
No on DeCamp near Vine.
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Hartwell--IN THE City of Cincinnati
1,055 posts, read 3,567,314 times
Reputation: 904
I just think if there was more focus on the neighborhoods as a whole, the City would see a lot of great instant changes. There are a lot of wonderful people in this City who want to improve their neighborhoods and make suggestions only to be met with "We just dont have any money". Street improvements are on 3 year cycles in neighborhoods, recreation centers in neighborhoods are threatened to be closed every year, neighborhood business districts want to make improvements and updates and offer more parking, green spaces have been adopted by neighborhood residents who are tired of waiting for the City to maintain them, I could go on and on about what our neighborhoods need and how it will benefit the City as a whole. I love downtown. I think it is beautiful and I have never felt unsafe. I love to make it a point to drive through Over the Rhine so I can see changes in the buildings and new stores opening, but there are 52 neighborhoods and as much as many support the streetcar, I think the projects that neighborhoods want are usually outweighed by those which involve downtown. Sure I want people who visit this town or come to enjoy events on the square to walk away thinking how great the City is and be excited about all the changes, but I also want people to want to like to LIVE in all of the 52 neighborhoods.
And there are many great business districts within all the neighborhoods which provides tax dollars and not all those people who work in those businesses live in the City. They can know they work in a clean and safe area and maybe even move back to the City to be closer to work. The City has so many opportunities but they just make me feel like they are not weighing ALL the neighborhoods needs. I love living here, but as a volunteer, I get more frustrated with how things work against our needs more than for our needs.
Sorry about my mini rant..
I guess we all just changed this to the streetcar forum ;-)
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:43 AM
 
1,071 posts, read 3,943,147 times
Reputation: 265
Hartwell Girl is right. So is Jersey, as well as jlrosen and Cincy-Rise. Here's the debate though - do we support a centralized streetcar that might not make it out to Glenway or Vine and Galbraith any time soon? Furthermore, why are we prioritizing a downtown-uptown line in the areas that receive the most attention from City Hall, as opposed to supporting our streetcar suburbs they were created to stimulate and serve originally? I'm a supporter regardless, but I hope Dohoney is dotting his I's correctly so we can get in on some of that infastructure money. When i can get from Tri-County to Lincoln Heights to Hartwell through Lockland/Wyoming...that is real city transportation.
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Old 01-31-2009, 12:41 PM
 
2,204 posts, read 5,851,282 times
Reputation: 383
Hartwell Girl, you do know that, that first leg would be one of many? Believe it or not, our Mayor and council members (well, most) want full LRT up and running, but know that we have to start small with this city.
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Old 01-31-2009, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis and Cincinnati
682 posts, read 1,390,075 times
Reputation: 610
I happen to be pro streetcar, having said that I will also say that wheeled streetcars like Louisville and other cities have "may" make more sense as it gives the city a flexibility to change routes and such.If wheeled cars work then make the routes permanent. You will know within the first year if it will work or not and you will not have made a huge financial committment.

I don't believe that streetcars are the cure for Over-the Rhine, you wont 'restore' OTR until we scrap the 'prefferred developer' concept and putting the entire future of OTR in 3CDC.

If the city wants to turn OTR around they need to do some basic things.

Get rid of the parking meters. Or at least make them free on Saurdays

Take city owned vacant lots and create neighborhood permit parking lots so current residents have a place to park and visitors to OTR going to Main, Vine and Findlay Market can actually find parking.

Get a billboard ordinace to eliminate Billboards from historic districs.

Pass a strong anti panhandling ordinance and ban charities from dispensing items on city owned parks.

Require 3CDC to divest itself of 10 percent of its holdings over the next 5 years to owner occupants willing to come into OTR and restore.

That will turn OTR around.
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