Franklin Ohio, Warren County

[cincyohguy]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

Cali-Moving: so you are in LA now and planning a move to Ohio? Your questions imply that you haven't lived in the midwest or in Ohio before this.

It's really interesting, because a generation ago, every young person who wanted to move out of Ohio (including me) wanted to go to California. I grew up in Dayton and the first job I took out of college was in Silicon Valley. I moved back after a couple of years because the area just seemed so damned alien to me. I just didn't think I fit in out there.

One thing I'm going to say is that the local culture is entirely different than what you're used to. California is blue and Ohio is medium to deep red.

Another thing is that I find that when I vacation in or visit an area temporarily I usually just see the positives. Like the Bay Area. Once I moved there I experienced things that indicated that for every positive there was usually a deep negative (for me).

I'm just going to tell you that Ohio is, in many ways, the polar opposite of what you're used to.

To me the biggest social difference between Ohio and California is that average people in California are (or were, when I lived there) optimistic and hopeful and open to change. Those qualities are pretty much reversed in Ohio - and one visit won't reveal the difference to a visitor. The Cincinnati - Dayton region is the apex of people "stuck in a rut". Of course, people act less "entitled" and spoiled in Ohio than California, but that's because people here work their asses off and don't seem to get very far. (Not only due to the current economy but in a long term economic sense.)

In general, California is where trends start and where everything happens first. At least that was true in the microelectronics industry. Ohio hasn't been a leader in much of anything since the mid 1900s, when it was the leader in industrialization.

And if this move is partly based on the economy now, I'll say this. The "hiring" economy in Ohio has not been healthy for two generations. Not since the 60s. Since then it has been a struggle for many types of white and blue collar workers to find a decent job here. Even during the last economic boom, employers here were damned picky. When the economy improves, it will probably improve the most and first in California.

I have a colleague who is a web designer in Visalia, California and he's explained that the central valley in CA is exactly like the midwest - Bible Belt culture and socially and politically. So there's my comparison for you: if you could see yourself moving to the central valley, then this may be a good move for you.

Many of your statements are very broad and untrue. While some of what you wrote may apply to some areas in California and Ohio, they certainly do not apply everywhere. Many metro areas in Ohio have experienced a lot of population growth over the last two generations and the Cincinnati and Columbus areas have good, diversified job markets. Cincinnati was just ranked in the Top 5 places to move after graduating college.(based on current job listings, rent, and cost of living). There are many large companies in Ohio (among the highest in Fortune 500 companies per capita)Also, to say people in the Cincinnati-Dayton area are stuck in a rut is just downright offensive and not true. There are plenty of great areas and suburbs, many growing, where people are optimistic and happy with where they live. The media may portray it differently and I don't know what parts of Ohio you have been to, but IMO Cincinnati and Dayton suburbs are among the best places to live in the country. Of course, media portrays California the exact opposite of Ohio. I don't know about the economy improving first or the most in California. Right now, the state of California and its government is in the hole. Unemployment is 11%(higher than Ohio's rate), the state is bankrupt and in massive debt, and people are starting to leave the state. A lot of California's problems are a result of the crazy spending and liberal lifestyle decisions made by many in the big blue state. The cost of living out there is just ridiculous and people are starting to realize California isn't exactly how everyone portrays it to be.

[Cali-moving]

Hi everybody - wow...thanks so much for these responses. They're great and very valuable.

To Ohioan58: Whereabouts in CA did you live? The Silicon Valley? I'm curious. CA is a very vast state where you can experience everything from the super rich sophisticated city dweller to a dirt poor farmer. What I'm used to in CA is indeed the polar opposite of Ohio - as I said I live in a dirty, arid, crowded, very depressed little community called Sunland, where the hills are always brown (not green) because of heat and lack of water. I can't afford anything else, although I have worked 21 plus years for a mid sized and respected printing company - I work 40+ (and then some) hours a week. I make $50,000 a year. It's not enough to live decently in CA, which is ridiculous. In my neighborhood in Sunland I am surrounded by non-English speakers and meth users and homeless drug addicts in our local park. What I saw in Ohio was a breath of fresh air -be proud of that. I welcome that. If blue collars and Republicans come with it, so be it. My friends (1/2 of them) are Republican and Libertarian right here in CA, so I don't have a problem with "red" sentiments. (A few years ago they would have thought we were talking about communists...all this "red" talk...LOL) CA has a Republican Governor and there are perhaps many more right wing folks in CA than the news media might lead you to believe. I voted for Arnold Schwartzenegger, although I am not a Replublican. I thought he had good thoughts and a desire for change - too bad nobody will let him bring forth the changes he envisioned. So CA suffers. I was raised in NY (the Hudson Valley, not the city), went to school in Great Britain and wound up in CA. My husband was raised here in CA and he hates it now and wants out. Also, the "midwest" sentiment is very strong in CA. Many people came here from the midwest in the dust bowl. They were raised with midwest values; that sentiment is not alien to Californians - a hard work, go to church on Sunday ethic - Bakersfield, Needles, Lake Almanor and Lake Isabella, Chico and many more places - all (or almost all) Republican. Californians are not all pot smoking, granola eating, hippy weirdos tip toeing through the tulips (they all moved to Colorado...LOL!) Anyway...where I am in Southern CA, except for the weather...to quote the kids today..."sucks". You say that Californians are optimistic...when were you here last? In my job, we've taken 10% pay cuts (those of us that weren't laid off - we've had lots of layoffs just in my printing plant and there are more slated) and the hourly folks have been cut back to 30 hours per week with no overtime. Some of the people I work with are Mexican immigrants making $8.00 an hour but paying $1,000 per month for rent - there are sometimes 3 families living in a 3 bedroom 1000 s.f. house. I've actually seen a house in the town of Sun Valley where the landlord installed a kitchen in each of the bedrooms (totally against code) so that he could charge rent on a 3 family rental. Certainly not everybody lives like this, no - I don't thankfully, but these are real people, with children, who do live like this. It's unconscienable but a reality. Anyway...I hear what you are saying. Your words are, sadly, the echo of my deepest fear. But I (in true California fashion perhaps) am optimistic. The other respondents here are optimistic on my behalf and they are Ohioans too. That gives me a good feeling.

To Jeffrey, cincyohguy and Aquila...THANK YOU for your thoughts and your input. I really want to make a change and I am worried about it, sure. But nobody every succeeded without a fear of failing. Nothing has ever come from nothing. But I believe in the final analysis that people are people...we all want a home, a job and a family - wherever we hail from. So I am still hopeful that we (my husband and I) might make a go of it in the nice little town of Franklin. We'll see. It's a big decision and one not made lightly, certainly.

These forums are really interesting. I've read these city data forums for almost 2 years now, with deep interest but little interaction. I've been a city data "voyeur". It's cathartic sometimes - it's also depressing sometimes -there are these little wars of words that go on. All anonymous and totally faceless so there's a safety in it. Then there are also the unbelievably kind and caring responses. All for a stranger. Bless you all. Isn't it a funny old world we live in, eh? Bye for now.

[Cali-moving]

One further thought in response to Ohioan58: I have thought about and explored the Central Valley of CA. It is too damn hot and still too damn expensive to live there. Pretty...some of it is, yeah. But it's out of the question for us. For my husband, the California native, it's biggest drawback is that it's in CA. How sad is that?

[Ohioan58]

Cali:

Yes, I was in Silicon Valley. Antiseptic, safe, clean, traffic clogged, and full o' computer geeks.

Ok, your explanation makes perfect sense. The Bay Area is by and large a rich techie person's "ghetto" and I was in Sunnyvale, which had little crime to speak of. The one single big problem in SV was cost of living. Well, insane traffic was another. There was boundless opportunity to get ahead in my career if I cared to live there, which I didn't.

And I have a high school friend who lived in Moreno Valley and I visited him down there in the 90s. He pretty much characterized it as an exurban ghetto with lots of gang activity. I saw it as hot, flat, dry, and mind numbing.

I wasn't proposing the central valley as a solution. I just meant that a guy I know who lives there says that it's culturally similar to the midwest. (When I moved out there from college, I was stuck in traffic in Sacramento in the middle of the afternoon in late July. 105 according to the radio.)

And, I last lived in California in 1981. And had intermittent contact with college friends who moved to LA through the 80s and early 90s. It probably has changed a lot, and for the worse.

So, the biggest challenge that you will face here will be relatively weak hiring. But it should be no worse than what you have to face right now where you are at.

Back to Ohio... Franklin easily has the most character of any small town in Southwest Ohio. Miamisburg, five miles north on the old highway, is similar and has a great downtown section. It's kind of the flip side of no growth and having suburbia grow around the town - things got preserved by default and not torn down. If your prospective house is in or near the row of mansions along the Great Miami River on the west bank, I really envy you - those places are magnificent. An interurban railway used to run along that bank, according to my mother. It's quite historic.

I think that the main weather issue here, and particularly in river bottom area, will be summer humidity. California is bone dry in comparison. Winter is actually not as uncomfortable here as the dog days of summer, IMO.