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And what will the naysayers and opponents say if voters reject it, like they overwhelmingly did less than two years ago?
Just think, by this November, gas could be well over $5 a gallon. It'll be kind of hard to rally the masses in the city (many of whom do not have cars) with an anti-rail/pro-car agenda if the cost of driving continues to get more prohibative. Remember, people in Kenwood, Mason, Alexandria and other suburbs (where most of the people who loathe the idea of the city getting a streetcar live) can't vote on the measure.
Incidently, with Cincinnati's somewhat unknown or downright negative national reputation, I doubt you're going to find anyone dying to vote yes in a poll that they would move to Cincinnati with or without a streetcar. This city faces quite an uphill battle to regain its elite status, IMO. The streetcar would be a big step in the right direction, but plenty of work needs to be done for Cincinnati to start gaining at the expense of far more forward-thinking cities like Austin, Denver, Charlotte, etc. Any poll in the city vs. city forum in which Cincinnati participates usually turns into a bloodbath against Cincy. And, unbelievably, in plenty of other threads in that forum the city is ignored altogether.
Well, hey - you know what? If people are going to spout off about all the people who would move to Cincinnati if it had a streetcar system, then I want to see something to back up that thinking. I want to see what people across the country REALLY think about it. I want to see if people really WOULD move to Cincinnati if it had a streetcar system. You can't simply make a claim "if you build it, they will come" without actually SHOWING that to be true. This isn't a fictional story about building a baseball field.
If the voters reject another referendum, more power to them. The point I was trying to make is that the voters will have the ultimate say in the matter, so maybe the mayor should hold off on saying anything about it until after the election. I mean why make a declaration that they would pursue it in face of the opposition if, later in November, the voters decide "Nope, it's not gonna happen"?
Have a good afternoon, abr. I'm packing up to make a move in the next 3 weeks, so I have to get busy instead of arguing back and forth about this.
Well, hey - you know what? If people are going to spout off about all the people who would move to Cincinnati if it had a streetcar system, then I want to see something to back up that thinking. I want to see what people across the country REALLY think about it. I want to see if people really WOULD move to Cincinnati if it had a streetcar system. You can't simply make a claim "if you build it, they will come" without actually SHOWING that to be true. This isn't a fictional story about building a baseball field.
If the voters reject another referendum, more power to them. The point I was trying to make is that the voters will have the ultimate say in the matter, so maybe the mayor should hold off on saying anything about it until after the election. I mean why make a declaration that they would pursue it in face of the opposition if, later in November, the voters decide "Nope, it's not gonna happen"?
Have a good afternoon, abr. I'm packing up to make a move in the next 3 weeks, so I have to get busy instead of arguing back and forth about this.
But it's not being built, so how can it possibly be shown to be true? I'm not following this one at all.
Plus, you're assuming a whole lot - specifically that the streetcar is an island in and of itself. It's not nor has it ever been envisioned as such. It's one of the tools needed to boost the urban core, and the sum of that is what will bring people - new businesses that would open along a streetcar line, new jobs at those new businesses, new restaurants/retail a streetcar would bring, a redeveloped urban core.
The streetcar would attract businesses, which would spur development, which would upgrade the quality of life in the city - that's what will bring people. Don't put the chicken before the egg.
Would people around the country drop everything and move to Cincinnati if the streetcar started operation tomorrow? Of course not, and you're totally loading the question. More realistically: Would the streetcar begin to bring new businesses and development and jobs, and would those jobs be able to attract and retain young, educated workers? Yes. And would Cincinnati have a chance to retain young, educated people currently looking with longing eyes at Chicago and Charlotte and Atlanta if it had something like a streetcar? Yup.
Think this won't happen in Cincinnati? Talk about whistling past the graveyard ...
Please enlighten us again, streetcar haters ... what is it, exactly, that we can't afford?
Stamford is planning a streetcar network , and BRT and only has a population of 122,000. There also planning another train station ontop of 2 they have.
Stamford is planning a streetcar network , and BRT and only has a population of 122,000. There also planning another train station ontop of 2 they have.
It seems it's only Cincinnati that continues to shoot itself in the foot. It's long been a favorite pastime of this city.
by John A Charles Jr. Thursday, January 20. 2011 Many commentators have expressed outrage at the possibility of a Costco being opened in the Rose Quarter. They point to the decades of public planning for that neighborhood and the multiple rail lines, and demand some form of transit-oriented development (TOD) as an alternative.
Moderator cut: quote shortened, copyright protection. Please read the tos
by John A Charles Jr. Thursday, January 20. 2011
Many commentators have expressed outrage at the possibility of a Costco being opened in the Rose Quarter. They point to the decades of public planning for that neighborhood and the multiple rail lines, and demand some form of transit-oriented development (TOD) as an alternative.Moderator cut: quote shortened, copyright protection. Please read the tos
So one, of the many lightrail hubs in this city, hasn't expirienced economic progression YET, and this should represent the transit system as a whole ???
So one, of the many lightrail hubs in this city, hasn't expirienced economic progression YET, and this should represent the transit system as a whole ???
Here's what my region has planned for over the next 20 years...70 of the general projects below are budgeted and the large scale projects are in good standing. When you see how many projects we have planned vs Cinny / Ohio its embrassing... There is alot of Development banking on some of these smaller station adding projects....
New Jersey / Lower New York / Western Connecticut
Projects to be completed by 2030
New Jersey Transit / PATCO / PATH / Metro North / Long Island Railroad / CTDOT / NJDOT / NYDOT
New Arrow Fleet to NJT
ALP 45DP's
Arrow Refurbishment to NJT
Perth Amboy Station upgrade
Wesmont station
Northern LRT link
New Brunswick station overhaul
More Double Decker cars
Northeast Corridor wire replacement
Raritan Valley line / Northeast Corridor Grade Separation
More Sidings added to the Atlantic , Pascack Valley lines
LED Departure boards @ Trenton , Hoboken , Newark , Secaucus
Hawthorne Transit Center
Cross County line
MOM Rail network
Lackawanna line
West Trenton line
West Trenton Riverline Extension
Hudson Bergen Light Rail > Northern Branch Corridor
Glassboro Light Rail line
Pennsuaken Transit Center
PATH extension to EWR
NJT Hudson Bergen Light Rail 440 Extension
Hoboken Ferry Terminal Overhaul
Hoboken PATH Terminal Overhaul
New Brunswick Station platform overhaul
Linden Station Overhaul
Elizabeth Station Overhaul
Newark Embankment Overhaul
Dock , Delair , PATH Hackensack River Bridge repainting
New Portal Bridge
New Meadowlands Yard
Restoration of Ampere station
Restoration of Harrison Station
Ridgewood station overhaul
Newark Light Rail stations overhaul
Walter Rand Transportation center overhaul
Journal SQ PATH Station Overhaul
Harrison PATH station overhaul
PATH system signal upgrades
PATH Track replacement
PATCO car refurbishment
Franklin SQ PATCO station restoration
PATH PA-5 Full purchase
I-287 Regional Rail Corridor
I-287 Light Rail Corridor
Electrification of the Hudson line to Poughkeepsie
Replacement of White Plains station
re-electrification of the Danbury line
Croton / New Haven shop upgrades
New Haven Union station canopy over tracks
Spuyten Duyvil Bridge replacement
System wide PTC ingratiation
M8 Car Purchase
M8 Bar / Cafe Car replacement
More Sidings / Signal upgrades added to the Waterbury / Danbury line
Replacement of the New Haven line's wires , bridges and stations
Double Decker Cars for Hudson / Harlem line
Overhaul of Grand Central Terminal platform areas
Downtown Norwalk station
Georgetown Station
West Haven Station
Fairfield Metro Center
East Stamford
New Milford Danbury line extension
Hoboken Terminal Overhaul
Hudson / New Haven line Extension to Penn station
Signal Upgrades to LIRR
Track Replacement to LIRR
Switch Upgrades to LIRR
Electrification of Central Branch
Electrification of the Port Jefferson Branch
Electrification of the Montauk Branch
Third Tracking of the Main line (LIRR)
East Side Access to Grand Central Terminal
Double Tracking of parts of the Ronkonkoma line
M9 Rail car
Equal Outbound / Inbound Services on LIRR lines
Stamford Streetcars
New Haven Streetcars
Restoration of the Beacon / Maybrook line
Pittsfield line
West Shore line
Philpsburg connections
7 Train Extension to West Side / Penn station
New Portal Bridge
New Flushing station
Second Avenue Subway
New Long Island City Terminal
4 New Stations along the Montauk Branch in St. Albans / Jamaica neighborhoods
Gateway Tunnel
Penn station expansion / Replacement
Cape May line
Ocean City Branch
Inland Coastal Express
New Subway cars
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