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Historical preservation is nice, but what is more important?
I'm with restorationconsultant on this. Historical preservation does put food on the table. And, it adds to the government's tax base all at the same time.
Which is a more responsible investment? Money invested to purchase corporate shares which were owned by some person who wanted to ditch them, or money paid to craftsmen and material suppliers for renovation costs? And, the investor who makes a reasonable investment in historic real property in a developing area is diversifying his investments which is also socially responsible and good practice.
As you say, it is kind of vague. I would like to know exactly what your purchases, renovations, etc. are based on. I am not against restoration and renovation, but I would like to know your business plan for why this will succeed other than nostalgia and preservation of architecture, i.e. historical significance.
My feeling is right now, too manyAmericans are being faced with the lack of a job, inability to pay the mortgage (i.e. foreclosures), problems with just putting food on the table, etc. Historical preservation is nice, but what is more important?
The vagueness comes into play when my plans come to actually moving into OTR. I am clear about the historical signifigance and beautification of the area and not seeing more dozed buildings due to neglect. No I don't have a buisiness plan because it's not a business endeavor at this point.
In (overly) simple terms, I believe that the economy will turn around but the historically significant neighborhood is in imminent danger NOW, at a tipping point deeper into blight, disenvestment, apathy.
I'm interested but helpless to all of the political and financial posturing that's happening there, what can I do? I have an idea of turning around the abandoned buildings. I'm counting on a new casino and light rail, market rate condos and apartments, a thriving Findlay Market and Gateway Quarter, the "cleaning up" of Washington Park, and a healthy mix of low, middle, and high-income residents. I'm riding on the coattails of the visionary ideas coming to fruition but the payoff is that OTR can be turned around in all districts.
I get angry seeing what's happened there through the years and that one of the country's--and definitely Cincinnati's, most important neighborhoods to have been decimated like it has.
My feeling is right now, too manyAmericans are being faced with the lack of a job, inability to pay the mortgage (i.e. foreclosures), problems with just putting food on the table, etc. Historical preservation is nice, but what is more important?
Historic preservation can be an economic development tool and can create sustainable jobs. Spending 250K in restoration creates jobs for plumbers, painters, HVAC techs, general laborers and it stimulates local business through purchase of materials.
Unfortunately our city government 'doesnt get" that. Savannah GA created 15000 jobs over the last 10 years directly related to Heritage toursim. Those are service industry jobs, retail clerks, hotel staff, restaurant workers. Cincinnati has a big unemployment problem with non college educated people. Those are exactly the kind of jobs this city needs.
The biggest asset Cincinnati has is its historic architecture. It is one of the few cities that didn't wholsale demo its urban neighborhoods in the 60-70-80's like most major cities did. Unfortunately its making up for lost time. If it is stopped soon enough ,Cincinnati's urban neighborhoods are poised to make a great comeback. Most cities would kill for a Findlay market or an OTR or for that matter any of the relatively intact urban neighborhoods we have with houses with hillside views.
Cincinnati could be a city like Charleston, San Francisco or New Orleans where people actually plan vacations around shopping , historic house tours. Ask most out of towners about Cincinnati and all they know is Cincinnati is big on baseball and they have a zoo. That is unfortunate because we could be much more.
We need to develop and market our historic assets not bulldoze them, in the process of restoration of our historic neighborhoods we can create jobs.
The biggest asset Cincinnati has is its historic architecture. It is one of the few cities that didn't wholsale demo its urban neighborhoods in the 60-70-80's like most major cities did. Unfortunately its making up for lost time. If it is stopped soon enough ,Cincinnati's urban neighborhoods are poised to make a great comeback. Most cities would kill for a Findlay market or an OTR or for that matter any of the relatively intact urban neighborhoods we have with houses with hillside views.
Just had to say that was so well put, and the basis of my motivation.
The facts are that people are moving to Cincinnati because of its architecture and Urban neighborhoods. I personally know of at least 2 dozen people who moved to Cincinnati and are restoring and not just OTR but West End, Fairmount, Price Hill and Avondale areas that most natives see as worthless in just the last year.
People forget that Mt Adams didn't always look the way it does today or Columbia Tusculum almost had a freeway built through it.
I participated in the turnaround of Indy's Urban neighborhoods, areas that people thought I was crazy to move into. Today those neighbohroods are fully restored and some of the priciest real estate in town.
The Same thing will happen in Cincinnati over the next decade, it has already begun. My own neighborhood of Knox Hill has a couple of mill worth of private money restoration going on right now. People who moved there for the views and the architecture. We are working on our State and National Registry Nominations right now. Most locals have no idea whats going on in my neighborhood because its in Fairmount, except some who made their money in Mr Adams and see the next area to turnaround. Price Hill has a lot of restoration going on too. In a few years people will be lamenting that those areas 'used' to be cheap.
Facts are that section 8 is moving to suburbia and along with it crime. You need only look at the models of what has happened in other cirties to see that.
The bigest roadblock to neighborhood turnaround is in my opinion the city govenrment who has no clue and is perfectly Ok with doing things the way they always have.
Restoration Consultant, after reading many of your posts on Urban Ohio, mind-blowing stuff btw... Reading between the lines, getting into restoration seems frowned upon except for those with lots of resources...
Is it better that someone who cares for saving a building though it may take awhile due to limited budget gets started now or better to let it sit for years until someone with some ridiculous cash flow of over $100k decides to restore that building?
Rhetorical question, I know but as a Cincy native for all of my 40 years I have a personal interest in seeing a neighborhood turn around, even if I restore some fringe properties starting small and working up. Some of it definitely sounds elitist. So my question is, is there room for the small guy who's passionate, in historical restoration? There will have to be because I will take it on.
I know there is disdain because a lot of the condemned buildings started with good inentions, but due to lack of means, they never got finished.
Also I'm talking a building in the 30's paid cash for. Research beforehand what liens and work orders are in place...just not any extra for the unexpected. First order of business,is the exterior: correct for the period facade, painting, trim, and windows/doors.
My first house, a shotgun style 3-story in on Queen City Ave in South Fairmount was a victim of a "quick rehab" after I sold it when I got married, and it made me sick.
Facts are that section 8 is moving to suburbia and along with it crime. You need only look at the models of what has happened in other cirties to see that.
It's guaranteed to happen, it's science. This will always pan out ... it's just a matter of when?
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People forget that Mt Adams didn't always look the way it does today...
Prospect Hill might be the best example of this ... especially in the shorter timeframe.
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The facts are that people are moving to Cincinnati because of its architecture and Urban neighborhoods. I personally know of at least 2 dozen people who moved to Cincinnati and are restoring and not just OTR but West End, Fairmount, Price Hill and Avondale areas that most natives see as worthless in just the last year.
Very true and this applies especially to our young and future homebuyers!
Restoration Consultant, after reading many of your posts on Urban Ohio, mind-blowing stuff btw... Reading between the lines, getting into restoration seems frowned upon except for those with lots of resources...
Is it better that someone who cares for saving a building though it may take awhile due to limited budget gets started now or better to let it sit for years until someone with some ridiculous cash flow of over $100k decides to restore that building?
Rhetorical question, I know but as a Cincy native for all of my 40 years I have a personal interest in seeing a neighborhood turn around, even if I restore some fringe properties starting small and working up. Some of it definitely sounds elitist. So my question is, is there room for the small guy who's passionate, in historical restoration? There will have to be because I will take it on.
I know there is disdain because a lot of the condemned buildings started with good inentions, but due to lack of means, they never got finished.
Also I'm talking a building in the 30's paid cash for. Research beforehand what liens and work orders are in place...just not any extra for the unexpected. First order of business,is the exterior: correct for the period facade, painting, trim, and windows/doors.
My first house, a shotgun style 3-story in on Queen City Ave in South Fairmount was a victim of a "quick rehab" after I sold it when I got married, and it made me sick.
The city work orders are typically the biggest obstacle. The city either wants to see it done immediately or they want it bulldozed. You need to know exactly what the city expectations are and if they are realistic. Often they are not. I have passed on 3 different properties in OTR because I didnt want to spend my life arguing with city inspectors and spending thousands in legal fees for the "priviledge ' of restoring a property the city wrote off.
As far as buildings go I ALWAYS put restictive covenants on any house I restore. basically that the house remain single family , must be maintained to preservation standards. That typically eliminates the 'get rich quick guys".
I''ve looked at some OTR buildings that just wouldnt work for what we need for our business use but might be good for someone else. Send me a
private email and we can talk about that.
When it comes to OTR you need to talk with Danny Klinger and Mike Morgan who have been working there extensively. They know the lay of the land in that area and propbably are your best resource.
My best advice is to be realistic about what you can spend, how much of the work YOU plan on doing and how much time you have. Restoration is more than fixing up a building, its advocating for preservation issues and often fighting the city tooth and nail to save a builidng they deem as worthless. It can be very rewarding. Cincinnati cant be restored with just outsiders coming in, nor should it be.
Just don't bite off more than you can chew. If it seems like too big
a project it probably is. Having said that there are some smaller buildings that you could restore and you wouldnt break the bank. BUT if you havent seen the movie, go rent "Money Pit" and watch it until its burned into your brain! I hope you have spousal "buy in" on your plans?
My considerations revolve around my 9 year-old son...
Just moved "Money Pit" to the top of my Netflix queue, lol.
Thank you, I will be in touch via pm, I've tried calling OTR Foundation, but I'll shoot Mr. Morgan an email.
Those of you who are involved in the restoration and preservation of Cincy historic residences - the best of luck to you. At my age I am on the outside looking in, only hoping some catastrophic illness does not wipe us out. But it is encouraging to see those who want the Queen in Queen City restored.
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