Bye, Smitty's (Reading, Pleasantville, Wilson: condos, purchase, tenants)

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

I stand by what I said too...110%

And I'm sorry that places like Smitty's and some of the people who live in OTR get under your skin, but as I said previously, tough tooter---you don't get to decide who lives where, or what the color of those people are, and you're sadly mistaken if you think your imperious tones will stop people, anonymous or otherwise, from commenting...

I think it was you who made the threats. And, I don't care if the people up there are green. They are disorderly low lifes who stay because of the drugs and crime not in spite of it.

[progmac]

i would think an established business like smitty's would be more eyes on the street and good for the neighborhood. being there 60 years, there is no way the owner put up with much sh----t

[Wilson513]

This minute and most of my time I am sitting 1900 feet from the site of the former Smitty's. I have a pretty good understanding of what goes on there.

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

I think it was you who made the threats. And, I don't care if the people up there are green. They are disorderly low lifes who stay because of the drugs and crime not in spite of it.

I'm not in the habit of threatening folks, either here on City Data, or in real life...if you objected to certain portions of my remarks, and it's your right to do so, believe me, then OK...

But once again, you fling forth another judgement...'disorderly lowlifes who stay because of the drugs and crime and not in spite of it'...Wilson, whether you know it or not, you are ostensibly painting the citizens of an entire neighborhood, race notwithstanding, as lowlifes---and that's what I can't wrap my head around...

Look, it's been a known fact for quite some time that parts of OTR are like a war zone...I'm 275 pounds, black as the day is long, not afraid of too much of anything, but when my wife and I drive through OTR in BROAD DAYLIGHT, I instruct her to make sure her door is locked and the windows are rolled up...

But there's another page to the book as well...there are good people who live in OTR, who may much rather be somewhere else, but can't afford to at the moment...and because folks want to gentrify (which is not always a bad thing anyway) said good people may be pushed out, with no real alternative destination...

I said all that to say, you can't just blanket-stereotype people simply due to the actions of a few meatheads...that's just basic human principle

[Wilson513]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are looking at upper Vine Street at a distance and that you don't know me or the persons who hang out up there. I say hang out because it seems like every time one of them gets shot, stabbed or arrested, they have an address on Winneste or Goebel or the Fay Apartments or on Reading Road and they have just chosen to come down here to OTR to ply their dope dealing, or thievery or whatever.

There are a few folks down here that are here against their will, old, poor, disabled, or without the $300 or so it takes to move. If you knew me, you would know that I am their advocate. I own a building where 8 old people live in relative OTR bliss in one bedroom apartments of 1100 square feet overlooking a park and surrounded by yuppies. I purchased that building so that others did not displace these elderly folks that I have gotten to know in the 12 years I have been in OTR. They are all over 70, all black, and all receiving housing assistance. And, I love every one of them dearly.

I can tell you without fear of contradiction that none of my elderly tenants has ever stood out in front of Smitty's, never bought anything from Smitty's and would not even walk by Smitty's other than at the point of a gun (which, in fact, could happen for those innocents who stroll by).

Rather, the Smitty's crowd are the perpetrators and my elderly tenants are the victims. On check day, the young thugs, prostitutes, drug boys and other scoflaws populate areas like Smitty's to prey on the weak, on the victims. It is they who purchase a pimp hat or a pink suit or a black hoodie with the words: "Snitches get Stitches" and the other offerings of retailers there. On check day, the old, ill and alone are afraid to go out for fear of the perps. It is not uncommon for folks to need an escort to get their check cashed. If Smitty's assisted in that, fine, but I doubt it.

My folks get a ride up to University Plaza to get some groceries and skip the corner market with the rolling papers and the pint bottles of diluted vodka and the boys outside.

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are looking at upper Vine Street at a distance and that you don't know me or the persons who hang out up there. I say hang out because it seems like every time one of them gets shot, stabbed or arrested, they have an address on Winneste or Goebel or the Fay Apartments or on Reading Road and they have just chosen to come down here to OTR to ply their dope dealing, or thievery or whatever.

There are a few folks down here that are here against their will, old, poor, disabled, or without the $300 or so it takes to move. If you knew me, you would know that I am their advocate. I own a building where 8 old people live in relative OTR bliss in one bedroom apartments of 1100 square feet overlooking a park and surrounded by yuppies. I purchased that building so that others did not displace these elderly folks that I have gotten to know in the 12 years I have been in OTR. They are all over 70, all black, and all receiving housing assistance. And, I love every one of them dearly.

I can tell you without fear of contradiction that none of my elderly tenants has ever stood out in front of Smitty's, never bought anything from Smitty's and would not even walk by Smitty's other than at the point of a gun (which, in fact, could happen for those innocents who stroll by).

Rather, the Smitty's crowd are the perpetrators and my elderly tenants are the victims. On check day, the young thugs, prostitutes, drug boys and other scoflaws populate areas like Smitty's to prey on the weak, on the victims. It is they who purchase a pimp hat or a pink suit or a black hoodie with the words: "Snitches get Stitches" and the other offerings of retailers there. On check day, the old, ill and alone are afraid to go out for fear of the perps. It is not uncommon for folks to need an escort to get their check cashed. If Smitty's assisted in that, fine, but I doubt it.

My folks get a ride up to University Plaza to get some groceries and skip the corner market with the rolling papers and the pint bottles of diluted vodka and the boys outside.

I almost choked up when I read about those elderly folk you describe...they remind me of my late grandparents, and also of my 82-yr old mother in law, who lives with my wife and me---you know the saying 'there but for the grace of God'...

I also had no idea that you were both an OTR property owner, AND an advocate for those elders...I 'bared my fangs', so to speak, at you because I was taking umbrage at the tone of your original post...if I'm wrong, then I'm man enough to apologize, but I just thought you were being nasty toward the gentleman who owned Smitty's, and not the store itself...my late uncle owned a neighborhood store in a 'bad' part of my hometown, Cleveland, and he essentially served the same function as Smitty's (minus the urban wear, the loiterers, the 'lowlifes' etc)...he was respected and known throughout the neighborhood (I worked more than one summer manning the register and stocking the shelves LOL), so much so that the ONE time he was robbed, the neighborhood closed ranks and caught the perps in about 5-6 hours, then held them for the police...but that was then, and not now

If your gripe is with the idiot-a**holes that prey on the weak and the elderly, then I'm with you 100% on that one...God help anyone who'd mess with my MIL, and I find out about it...but can you muster even a little sympathy for the gentleman who ran Smitty's? You may not like his clientele (same here) but the man had been doing it for so long, I just thought of my uncle, and my heart immediately went out to him

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

...but can you muster even a little sympathy for the gentleman who ran Smitty's? You may not like his clientele (same here) but the man had been doing it for so long, I just thought of my uncle, and my heart immediately went out to him

I can. As this discussion has progressed, I have thought about Mr. Ashcraft and my criticism of him. He is doing what he has always done. I saw on the news that he worked for the original owners and the business was handed down to him. So, he has probably never had any choice in whether he is a positive force for the folks or a negative force.

Those of us here every day know that we don't need any more bars in OTR, upscale or not. They just attract the thugs. And we don't need any more convenience stores selling rolling papers and propane lighters and glass vials. But the people who run those businesses may not have a real choice on what they do.

So my apologies to Mr. Ashcraft.

Here's the place where the old folks live:

[kjbrill]

Wilson1010 & Captaincatfish...

Glad the both of you decided to tone it down a little. The neighborhood needs every able bodied and capable person pulling for it, not tearing it apart. Our passions sometimes come in the way of our logic. Here's hoping the two of you can meet face to face and discuss your mutual desires and methods for improvement.

[Hargrave]

Not having everyone know who exactly I am is a good thing in my line of work. I'm an owner/operator of a towing company, a small buisiness owner. I do impounds and repo work and I get a look at all the nice parts of the city. I work hard every day, 14 hour days are not unusual. And When I read about another buisiness owner losing everything to a fire and then someone laughing about it. That REALLY rubbed me the wrong way.
I'm not apoligizing for what I said. But after your explanation, and my own experience with Smitty's Customers ( Worked at the procare downtown ) I can understand somewhat your reaction. And I appreciate the apoligy.

[goyguy]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Wilson1010 & Captaincatfish...

Glad the both of you decided to tone it down a little. The neighborhood needs every able bodied and capable person pulling for it, not tearing it apart. Our passions sometimes come in the way of our logic. Here's hoping the two of you can meet face to face and discuss your mutual desires and methods for improvement.

Call the president, it's time for another beer in the Rose Garden.