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View Poll Results: Do you think New York City's boroughs stand a fighting chance?
Yes, the boroughs have a competitive chance 51 56.04%
No, the boroughs don't stand any chance whatsoever 33 36.26%
I don't know enough about the boroughs to compare 7 7.69%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-22-2010, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Earth
2,549 posts, read 3,956,577 times
Reputation: 1218

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Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y View Post
The city of brooklyn merged with new york county which included manhattan and a good portion of the bronx.Queens and staten island followed and thus the city of new york(official name) was created. New york city was never defined as just new york county or manhattan. Nyc was always five boroughs(not including the the entire bronx which didnt become its own borough to 1912) Manhattan and brooklyn agreed to join together its not like ny county engulfed it. It made sense anyway, you can swim to brooklyn from manhattan if you wanted to
That is correct the City of Brooklyn wasn't part of the City of New York at one time.

Quote:
Furthermore if you were to shave landmass off lets say both brooklyn and staten island, nyc would still have a bigger population than chicago
How about Brooklyn and say Queens?

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And 303 is not that much bigger than 223. Like i said even if you were to shave landmass off ny it wouldnt make a difference anyway
Yeah, 71 sq miles of Kings County can make a huge difference in population.

Quote:
And exactly how much land would la need to accomplish being bigger than nyc?
When comparing only "city" population (not CMSA) just consolidating LA county would do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Well yes but how large is LA county? so then throw in Westchester, Sussex, Bergen and Hudson.

Chicago is not as large as NYC, though very large, LA is not as dense though very dense and for a long way.

Maybe compare Urban Area of each:

1. NYC 18.2 Million
2. LA 14.8 Million
3. Chicago 8.7 million

http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-...ity-sizes.html
Technically, LA city-county consolidation would "officially" make LA the nation's largest in terms of city population according to the US Census. You can't consolidate NJ since it's out of state. A city-county consolidation can only take place in the state it's in.

If LA consolidated:

1. Los Angeles 9,848,011
2. New York City 8,214,426
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:42 PM
 
515 posts, read 981,105 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanologist View Post
If LA consolidated:

1. Los Angeles 9,848,011
2. New York City 8,214,426
I see your point, however that will never happen - last I heard San Fernando Valley was more interested in breaking apart from the City of Los Angeles than merging with other adjacent municipalities. Additionally, if you wanted to compare urban areas, NYC is much larger than both Los Angeles and Chicago if you include Long Island and Westchester county - not to mention northern New Jersey.

Also, I think this thread is getting off topic.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:43 PM
 
Location: THE THRONE aka-New York City
3,003 posts, read 6,063,528 times
Reputation: 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanologist View Post
That is correct the City of Brooklyn wasn't part of the City of New York at one time.



How about Brooklyn and say Queens?



Yeah, 71 sq miles of Kings County can make a huge difference in population.



When comparing only "city" population (not CMSA) just consolidating LA county would do it.



Technically, LA city-county consolidation would "officially" make LA the nation's largest in terms of city population according to the US Census. You can't consolidate NJ since it's out of state. A city-county consolidation can only take place in the state it's in.

If LA consolidated:

1. Los Angeles 9,848,011
2. New York City 8,214,426

1.Brooklyn mixed with new york county and than became the city of new york. The city of new york literally translates to bronx+brooklyn+manhattan+statenisland+queens there was never one single area that was considered the city of new york atleast not in technical terms

2. Shaving off bk and qns would still leave the city proper with around 3 million+ between the bronx,manhattan and staten island

3. New york wouldnt be able to get other states but we could get westchester county(which directly connects to the bronx) and the downstate area or maybe long island(directly connected to queens). Which would instantly add another 10 million
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Earth
2,549 posts, read 3,956,577 times
Reputation: 1218
We'll, it's just a hypothetical. Yes, it's unlikely you'll get Long Island or the rest of LA county to do a consolidation. People moved out to the burbs for reasons that are against the city.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:21 PM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,574 posts, read 7,691,623 times
Reputation: 1478
bk and queens are on long island...and i have easy access to long island buses or the lirr and i'm in queens. its not that much of a stretch if someone suggested that one day (the rest of) long island may end up being a part of nyc.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:24 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,095 posts, read 13,104,976 times
Reputation: 10045
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y View Post
The city of brooklyn merged with new york county which included manhattan and a good portion of the bronx.Queens and staten island followed and thus the city of new york(official name) was created. New york city was never defined as just new york county or manhattan. Nyc was always five boroughs(not including the the entire bronx which didnt become its own borough to 1912) Manhattan and brooklyn agreed to join together its not like ny county engulfed it. It made sense anyway, you can swim to brooklyn from manhattan if you wanted to
KONY, I think you are getting New York County (Manhattan Borough) mixed up with The City of Greater New York (the 5 boroughs). It is confusing so I will try to clear a few things up the best I can.

The City of Brooklyn NEVER merged or has ever been part of New York County --- not even today. Manhattan = New York County and Brooklyn = Kings County, its been that way ever since 1683.

Actually, New York City WAS defined just to Manhattan Island (NY County) for over 200 years. Before the Civil War, New York City was just on Manhattan Island. This is why people in the outer boroughs still call Manhattan "the City". In fact at one time even the Northern part of Manhattan Island was independent, the Town of Harlem.

NYC was NOT always 5 boroughs. Its only been like since 1898. In 1898 the City of Greater New York was formed:

New York County = Manhattan and the Bronx*
Kings County = Brooklyn
Queens County = Queens
Richmond County = Staten Island



* The Bronx became a independent county in 1912.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Earth
2,549 posts, read 3,956,577 times
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^ I figured Manhattan was the original part of the city since the indians already had settlements there before the Europeans arrived.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY $$$
6,836 posts, read 15,326,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmShahi View Post
I think everyone here is putting too much emphasis on the skyline criteria, that's not what defines a great city.

I'm surprised no one even tried to fill in the dots.

I matched Staten Island with Cleveland for the same reason I described in one of my responses. The theater and arts and museums and zoo's and all of those things, the transportation being comparable (even though SI LRT is a proposal- it will make things more comparable) the water front, and culture, entertainment, and things to do are similar.

Los Angeles with Manhattan due to the media influence, glamor, shopping, tourism, etc... not because of the skyline or natural scenery. (which really helps Los Angeles overall)

Brooklyn with Chicago because they're both rich with history, if you recount their history, you'll feel the similarity between both. The culture of Brooklyn, IMO seems most closely with Chicago as far as any other large (yes large) cities go. The transportation background, the amenities, all the things you can do in both areas resemble each other greatly. (factor out skyline, factor out O'Hare Airport and compare what Brooklyn has to offer with it's Chicago counterpart).

Queens and San Francisco, the comparison came from deduction from my previous overall diversity thread, the things eek pointed out just really helped compare them more. I was actually hoping for a cultural comparison between these two actually, and maybe other factors you could think up they would have in common.

The Bronx and Philadelphia, I picked it because both of these places have that stereotypical view of being "rough around the edges" and their large sports centers for both their cities. There's quite a lot you can compare. You don't have to say Center City = smaller Manhattan, you just have to compare the similarities and note some differences between the two regions.

I can see a lot of people misunderstood my thread, I see a lot of people bringing in their own list of cities to match with these boroughs (which I kind of didn't want- was trying to derive similarities to show boroughs being influential/strong enough to stand their ground in categories against other cities), that was my main point. Somewhere along the line a lot of you lost focus and started comparing skyline to skyline (which doesn't say a city is better- bigger, etc).

The question was "do you think the borough's can put a good effort when compared to cities (the ones I personally picked) or do they come crumbling down and face no match?" 22 people (including myself) have said yes, but besides eek & KONY, and a few others like John_Starks I haven't really seen anyone post anything to defend why they said yes. Which just makes it a stale response. Haha.

When you compare Philadelphia to New York City, many of us can say that New York City easily, but why? Because it offers more, it takes what Philadelphia has and puts it on a grand scale, but that doesn't mean Philadelphia isn't comparable to New York City. Which is why I put these specific cities against the boroughs, because I actually do think (whether they can beat the cities or not) they ARE comparable. (Granted the match up isn't the best- but you should be ready for just about any match up) Which is why I advise everyone here to just stick to the boroughs and the specific cities I listed and not throw in your own ideal match ups or cities.
i really never understood the skyline conspriacy neither, its insane how some people really think because you have a worse skyline that your city is probably lame.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:00 PM
 
Location: THE THRONE aka-New York City
3,003 posts, read 6,063,528 times
Reputation: 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
KONY, I think you are getting New York County (Manhattan Borough) mixed up with The City of Greater New York (the 5 boroughs). It is confusing so I will try to clear a few things up the best I can.

The City of Brooklyn NEVER merged or has ever been part of New York County --- not even today. Manhattan = New York County and Brooklyn = Kings County, its been that way ever since 1683.

Actually, New York City WAS defined just to Manhattan Island (NY County) for over 200 years. Before the Civil War, New York City was just on Manhattan Island. This is why people in the outer boroughs still call Manhattan "the City". In fact at one time even the Northern part of Manhattan Island was independent, the Town of Harlem.

NYC was NOT always 5 boroughs. Its only been like since 1898. In 1898 the City of Greater New York was formed:

New York County = Manhattan and the Bronx*
Kings County = Brooklyn
Queens County = Queens
Richmond County = Staten Island



* The Bronx became a independent county in 1912.
I was under the impression that new york was simply new york county(bronx and manhattan) brooklyn was brooklyn and when they combined they became the city of new york and new york became manhattan to be recognized as a borough.

Anyway you slice it new york city didn't become nyc to it was five boroughs. Thats when the trains,bridges,pop boom etc came into play. Thats when the city became the city to replace london

People from the bronx refer to manhattan as downtown so i cant vouch for calling it the city. The term makes sense for brooklynites i guess. But thr real reason would most likely be off the strength of manhattan being the location of the scrapers i doubt anything dealing with the past
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 15,928,719 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordandubreil View Post
i really never understood the skyline conspriacy neither, its insane how some people really think because you have a worse skyline that your city is probably lame.
Yeah seriously. Like I'm probably the biggest skyline crazed guy on my floor or neighborhood when I'm in Houston... and it's hard for me to see a city without one, but I've grown to accept some great cities that don't have one. Like Washington DC... and it's still a awesome city despite not having a skyline.
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