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Old 08-18-2010, 03:23 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,797 posts, read 11,740,838 times
Reputation: 5394

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Corrected for truth


Ok, if it's my opinion then how is it Philadelphia always get's stiffed in these rankings? I mean, your basic argument in every thread is that Philadelphia gets the shaft on:

-How big it's metro is
-Recognition for it's place as a global power center
-Just plain respect for it's status

Either there is some vast conspiracy going on from the Federal government to think tanks to downplay Philadelphia's importance.

Or...

Perhaps, Philadelphia just isn't as important as you think it is.

There was a time when Philadelphia was the fourth or fifth most important city in the country (and going back to the beginning the most important city). That time has passed. While Philadelphia was trying to reinvent itself in the face of the failure of the industries that got it to where it was (steel and manufacturing), the Big Southern Four passed it up.

For sure, Philadelphia has all four of them beat on history, "urbanity", and population (for now) but those are the things that are examined when you determining how "great" a city is...not how "important" a city is in the domestic and global economy.

For the record, I want to adamantly state that I do not look down on Philadelphia in any way and I believe it to be to be one of America's most vitally important cities and a major global player. It's just not currently as important to the domestic and global economy as Miami, Atlanta, Houston or Dallas. That is a verifiable fact that I can reference to by citing study after study by people way more versed in this subject than I...not something I have to squint my eyes or say "if only we moved this over here" to prove.
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Old 08-18-2010, 03:29 PM
 
Location: The City
21,958 posts, read 30,839,883 times
Reputation: 7495
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post


Ok, if it's my opinion then how is it Philadelphia always get's stiffed in these rankings? I mean, your basic argument in every thread is that Philadelphia gets the shaft on:

-How big it's metro is
-Recognition for it's place as a global power center
-Just plain respect for it's status

Either there is some vast conspiracy going on from the Federal government to think tanks to downplay Philadelphia's importance.

Or...

Perhaps, Philadelphia just isn't as important as you think it is.

There was a time when Philadelphia was the fourth or fifth most important city in the country (and going back to the beginning the most important city). That time has passed. While Philadelphia was trying to reinvent itself in the face of the failure of the industries that got it to where it was (steel and manufacturing), the Big Southern Four passed it up.

For sure, Philadelphia has all four of them beat on history, "urbanity", and population (for now) but those are the things that are examined when you determining how "great" a city is...not how "important" a city is in the domestic and global economy.

For the record, I want to adamantly state that I do not look down on Philadelphia in any way and I believe it to be to be one of America's most vitally important cities and a major global player. It's just not currently as important to the domestic and global economy as Miami, Atlanta, Houston or Dallas. That is a verifiable fact that I can reference to by citing study after study by people way more versed in this subject than I...not something I have to squint my eyes or say "if only we moved this over here" to prove.

I am saying How can you say any of those are better when one was excluded from evaluation. And just to add one point and it was stated earlier, When Atlanta and Philadelphia were both included in 5 recent International studies, Philly was ranked higher than Atlanta in 3 of the 5, though they were close on all. - so to your point, when not "stiffed" and included it does quite well. So on the ones where Philly is ranked and Atlanta is not am I to say Philly is higher, no how could that statement be made if it were not analyzed. My point with Philly and Dallas on this study. Who knows where they would have ranked.

But here is a question for you - Do you believe there are 26 cities that would rank between them, meaning if Atlanta is 39 and whatever is 65 then would say Atlanta is that far ahead? Just curious, really is my point

And on your verifiable - why not only use studies that include both cities, then it IS a verifiable FACT - that when both are included Philly was ranked AHEAD (caps so you don't have to squint) of Atlanta on 3 of 5

Last edited by kidphilly; 08-18-2010 at 03:39 PM..
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Old 08-18-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,797 posts, read 11,740,838 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
I am saying How can you say any of those are better when one was excluded from evaluation. And just to add one point and it was stated earlier, When Atlanta and Philadelphia were both included in 5 recent International studies, Philly was ranked higher than Atlanta in 3 of the 5, though they were close on all. - so to your point, when not "stiffed" and included it does quite well. So on the ones where Philly is ranked and Atlanta is not am I to say Philly is higher, no how could that statement be made if it were not analyzed.
There goes that "squinting of the eyes again". I believe this is what you are referring to:


All the "Most Important Cities" Rankings Combined

Unless my eyes are fooling me, it scored the following way for the ones that ranked both cities (the higher the number, the better score):

GaWC
Atlanta: 21
Philadelphia: 12
Advantage: Atlanta

Rand Mcnally:
Atlanta: 23
Philadelphia: 23
Advantage: Tie

Mastercard:
Atlanta: 20
Philadelphia: 22
Advantage: Philadelphia

Brookings:
Atlanta: 20
Philadelphia: 13
Advantage: Atlanta

RAND corporation:
Atlanta: 21
Philadelphia: 23
Advantage: Philadelphia

Atlanta: 2
Philadelphia: 2
Ties: 1
Advantage: Neither

So on that combined ranking list that you say Philadelphia ranked ahead of Atlanta, for the ones that ranked Philadelphia high enough we were equal when averaged out. Given that Philadelphia didn't make the cut for two other studies, and Atlanta ranked significantly above Philadelphia on the GaWC (aka the study that sucks only for cities not shown in a positive light), it seems to reason when it comes to "importance" all the experts basically agree that Atlanta ranks ahead of Philadelphia. Granted, not by much (never claimed it did) but still ahead of Philadelphia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
My point with Philly and Dallas on this study. Who knows where they would have ranked.
That's a valid argument. I do find it odd they stopped at 65. When looking at things from a global perspective 100 cities seems more reasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
But here is a question for you - Do you believe there are 26 cities that would rank between them, meaning if Atlanta is 39 and whatever is 65 then would say Atlanta is that far ahead? Just curious, really is my point
I would say that they would be right below Houston and Atlanta. It is totally reasonable to say that they are both as important global cities as Istanbul, Milan, Cairo or Dublin. Then again, most of the remaining 15 cities on the list are the center of their respective countries economy and it includes the manufacturing beasts Osaka, Shenzhen, and Guangzhou. No doubt, that was probably the deciding factor in including them over Dallas and Philadelphia (a measure I disagree with).
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:10 PM
 
Location: The City
21,958 posts, read 30,839,883 times
Reputation: 7495
On the GaWC Philly does get dinged on consultant services which are mostly out the NY offices, so a single criteria in their rankings drops their score. But again it only has one major, so there goes it's whole ranking on that criteria.

I will find the other two, One that included only Philly and one with Both

So would be (I forgot the GaWC maybe tried to block it )
ATL2
Philly3
Tie1

Let me track it down

And honestly I really believe in the US after (NYC, Chi, LA, Bay, DC) Atl, Bos, Dal, Hous, Philly are pretty close, maybe undistinguishable really
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:14 PM
 
224 posts, read 489,954 times
Reputation: 214
Where are all the DC residents that love to tout how DC is superior to SF?
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:17 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,797 posts, read 11,740,838 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindin View Post
LOL . For the younger kids on this forum, Beyonce would be San Francisco, Kelly Rowland would be San Jose, and Michelle Williams would be Oakland. LaToya, LaTavia, and Farrah would be the rest of the Bay.
LOL, I guess I was showing my age with a Supremes reference.
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 27,275,365 times
Reputation: 7567
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
I agree. Obviously, as the principal city in the area San Francisco gets the limelight, but it would never be where it is in these rankings without Oakland and San Jose and rest of the Bay Area.

The best analogy for the Bay Area is The Supremes. Diana Ross (San Francisco) got all the fame and adulation because she was the prettiest, but Mary Wilson (San Jose) was always the better singer, only a music nut could tell you about Florence Ballard (Oakland), and the other singers that came in and out of the group get ignored (the rest of the Bay Area).
I liked Flo's voice better than Mary. I liked Cindy better too
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Old 08-18-2010, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Miami/ Washington DC
4,835 posts, read 9,786,953 times
Reputation: 2493
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastdallasson View Post
yall are missing the truly important cities that got left out of the study. No San Diego? No Orlando?!? No FORT WORTH?!?!?!?!
Was that a joke?
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Old 08-18-2010, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Willowbend/Houston
13,403 posts, read 20,312,718 times
Reputation: 10183
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyMIA View Post
Was that a joke?
Yes, I believe it was.

The only cities that maybe should have been included that werent were Philly and Dallas. Orlando, Vegas, and San Diego arent quite up there.
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Old 08-18-2010, 05:26 PM
 
190 posts, read 369,375 times
Reputation: 76
it was in response to the three threads floating around right now where san diego and orlando are killing dallas in polls because they have beaches and ft. worth is complaining that they aren't considered top dog in the metroplex.
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