Secondary Principle Cities: Fort Worth, Oakland, San Jose, & Baltimore (airport, states)

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by MrRedd

1. Where did that come from?? You totally missed the point of that statement.

I don't think it really had a point. You were bitching about the Census calling Maryland Southern when it's nothing more than a geographic designation, presumably based on the Mason-Dixon line.

2. CSA and a Megalopolis are completely different, but all 5 cities interact the way that Baltimore & DC does. So no, you dont get points for that

You said "mega CSA." That's essentially what a megalopolis is.

3. Maybe YOU should brush oh on YOUR history any try not to wiggle away from the fact that u said MD is southern because they had slaves. When it is a fact that NY,NJ,PA and New England had them too.

Dude, at least quote me correctly. I said that for starters, Maryland is considered Southern historically (not presently) because it was a slave state--meaning that slavery had not been abolished in the state leading up to the Civil War. In other words, Maryland was a slave state. That's simply a fact. And just as a reminder, this was tied into the Census designating Maryland as "Southern," which is really just for geographical classification purposes. For some reason, you see that as illogical and then went on to somehow tie that to the ridiculousness (as you see it) of having DC and Baltimore in one CSA. At any rate, it's neither here nor there.

4. I wont argue with that, but that's what i said earlier when i said "marketing purposes", but it is Baltimore's airport.

It's more than just "marketing"; people actually use BWI when Washington is their final destination. I did the last time I was in DC back in June.

Obviously your coming to your own false conclusion if u think i have something against DC. i never said anything bad about it. My argument is that Baltimore is a completely seperate and independant city from DC. when you hear stupid statements like "Baltimore has a basketball team, it shares the wizards with DC", it gets annoying. I dont know why you keep bringing up the time its take to travel between the 2 cities like that means something. If that was the case, Philly is only an hour away.

Yes Baltimore is a completely separate and independent city from DC; I never claimed that it wasn't. They both have their own distinct identities and vibes, no doubt, which is why they each have their own MSAs. But at the same time, there is a degree of interaction and interconnectedness between the DC area and the Baltimore area--which is why they are both included in one CSA, which is a broader regional classification. For some reason, that's what you refuse to acknowledge when it's plain as day. And I only brought up the travel time ONCE to demonstrate that Atlanta and Charlotte don't have anywhere near the degree of interaction and interconnectedness as DC and Baltimore, and that's mainly due to there being a MUCH greater distance between Atlanta and Charlotte than DC and Baltimore.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by MrRedd

Tell me, how is Baltimore and DC so connected? Since u live here.

pulling up trusty old google maps, baltimore and dc for the most part appear to be connected in suburban development between them - but not philadelphia. (however, wilmington and its suburbs are clearly interconnected with philadelphia, as the other choices in this thread)

i would state that baltimore absolutely has its own character more than any of the other secondary cities given above (oakland probably second) - it has clearly developed as its own city independent of washington for the vast majority of time it has existed. still, it can't be denied that the two have sprawled into eachother over the past few decades and share quite a lot - suburban commuters, airports, commuter rail systems, and CMSAs. it's a positive.

[MrRedd]

Originally Posted by Akhenaton06

I don't think it really had a point. You were bitching about the Census calling Maryland Southern when it's nothing more than a geographic designation, presumably based on the Mason-Dixon line.



You said "mega CSA." That's essentially what a megalopolis is.



Dude, at least quote me correctly. I said that for starters, Maryland is considered Southern historically (not presently) because it was a slave state--meaning that slavery had not been abolished in the state leading up to the Civil War. In other words, Maryland was a slave state. That's simply a fact. And just as a reminder, this was tied into the Census designating Maryland as "Southern," which is really just for geographical classification purposes. For some reason, you see that as illogical and then went on to somehow tie that to the ridiculousness (as you see it) of having DC and Baltimore in one CSA. At any rate, it's neither here nor there.



It's more than just "marketing"; people actually use BWI when Washington is their final destination. I did the last time I was in DC back in June.



Yes Baltimore is a completely separate and independent city from DC; I never claimed that it wasn't. They both have their own distinct identities and vibes, no doubt, which is why they each have their own MSAs. But at the same time, there is a degree of interaction and interconnectedness between the DC area and the Baltimore area--which is why they are both included in one CSA, which is a broader regional classification. For some reason, that's what you refuse to acknowledge when it's plain as day. And I only brought up the travel time ONCE to demonstrate that Atlanta and Charlotte don't have anywhere near the degree of interaction and interconnectedness as DC and Baltimore, and that's mainly due to there being a MUCH greater distance between Atlanta and Charlotte than DC and Baltimore.

1. You're all over the place now. The original point was where MD was as southern state, it was the cesus inability to accurately categorize MD. You took the topic off course, then claim you didnt wanna go down that road.

2. Again, back to the census inability to properly label areas.

3. Are schizo or something?? The original question was, "What do u mean culturally anyway??" You said it was a slave state, so i proceeded to name all the other slave states in the north. why are to telling me a bunch of BS, that i already know, that doesnt have anything to do with anything. The mason-dixon line's purpose was NOT to separate north and south it was a dispute over land between MD and PA. Depending on who got their way, Baltimore would be in PA, or Philly would be in MD. I like how u throw a bunch of drawn out,random facts to clean up your mess, jus to discard it: "At any rate, it's neither here nor there." or "I REALLY don't want to go down this road in this thread, but" u make it very obvious.

4. If you flew into BWI and went to DC.. that means its "Marketing" worked.

5. Thank you we finally agree on something.

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by MrRedd

1. You're all over the place now. The original point was where MD was as southern state, it was the cesus inability to accurately categorize MD. You took the topic off course, then claim you didnt wanna go down that road.

That's because your yapping about it needed to be addressed. Your logic was "The Census inaccurately labels Maryland as Southern, so you know it has no clue what it's doing when it includes both DC and Baltimore in one CSA." That's a non-sequitor all day long. That's what it ultimately boils down to.

2. Again, back to the census inability to properly label areas.

Circular argumentation. You have not presented any facts whatsoever to conclusively show that DC and Baltimore should NOT be included in a CSA.

3. Are schizo or something?? The original question was, "What do u mean culturally anyway??" You said it was a slave state, so i proceeded to name all the other slave states in the north. why are to telling me a bunch of BS, that i already know, that doesnt have anything to do with anything. The mason-dixon line's purpose was NOT to separate north and south it was a dispute over land between MD and PA. Depending on who got their way, Baltimore would be in PA, or Philly would be in MD. I like how u throw a bunch of drawn out,random facts to clean up your mess, jus to discard it: "At any rate, it's neither here nor there." or "I REALLY don't want to go down this road in this thread, but" u make it very obvious.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don't even know that those states you listed weren't even considered slaves states!!! If you can't even accept the FACTS, then there's no need to discuss this any further. You don't even know that there's a difference between a state having had slaves and it being labeled as a slave state (but of course you pretend to know, which you really didn't). If you have a problem with the semantics, then you need to take that up with historians, not me.

4. If you flew into BWI and went to DC.. that means its "Marketing" worked.

Marketing had nothing to do with it, LOL; money did. I actually had no desire whatsoever to fly into BWI (or Dulles); I much preferred DCA because it was more convenient. However, I did the math and BWI worked out a little better.

Thank you we finally agree on something.

How are we agreeing? I'm saying that DC and Baltimore do deserve to be in one CSA, and you've disagreed with that this entire time. We "agree on something," but earlier you say the census has an "inability to properly label areas"--which is what I'm disagreeing with you about? LOL, ok. I guess it depends on what the definition of "is" is.

[MrRedd]

Originally Posted by Akhenaton06

That's because your yapping about it needed to be addressed. Your logic was "The Census inaccurately labels Maryland as Southern, so you know it has no clue what it's doing when it includes both DC and Baltimore in one CSA." That's a non-sequitor all day long. That's what it ultimately boils down to.



Circular argumentation. You have not presented any facts whatsoever to conclusively show that DC and Baltimore should NOT be included in a CSA.



ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don't even know that those states you listed weren't even considered slaves states!!! If you can't even accept the FACTS, then there's no need to discuss this any further. You don't even know that there's a difference between a state having had slaves and it being labeled as a slave state (but of course you pretend to know, which you really didn't). If you have a problem with the semantics, then you need to take that up with historians, not me.



Marketing had nothing to do with it, LOL; money did. I actually had no desire whatsoever to fly into BWI (or Dulles); I much preferred DCA because it was more convenient. However, I did the math and BWI worked out a little better.



How are we agreeing? I'm saying that DC and Baltimore do deserve to be in one CSA, and you've disagreed with that this entire time. We "agree on something," but earlier you say the census has an "inability to properly label areas"--which is what I'm disagreeing with you about? LOL, ok. I guess it depends on what the definition of "is" is.

This has been a good debate (one of the best I've had on this site), but i think its time to end. DC is a cool city, it is a kinetic and fast paced city match by only a few others in the US. My only issue is when people tie Baltimore to DC as if Baltimore is a bedroom community to DC. If people spent more time in Baltimore they would realize it is indeed its own city with its own history, culture, and lifestyle.

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by MrRedd

This has been a good debate (one of the best I've had on this site), but i think its time to end. DC is a cool city, it is a kinetic and fast paced city match by only a few others in the US. My only issue is when people tie Baltimore to DC as if Baltimore is a bedroom community to DC. If people spent more time in Baltimore they would realize it is indeed its own city with its own history, culture, and lifestyle.

I, for one, have never argued and will never argue that Baltimore is a bedroom community, suburb, exurb, or satellite city of DC. It is its own city with its own sphere of influence that happens to have a degree of economic interaction and exchange with the neighboring DC area. Thus, I find the Census designation to be more or less accurate: two separate MSAs, one overall CSA.

[Kid Cann]

St. Paul is so overshadowed I have had people ask me "Why is Minneapolis called the Twin Cities?"

And, "No, i've never heard of St. Paul Minnesota" like seriously?

[DANNYY]

No love for Oakland in this thread?

Saint Paul holds a lot of relevance, its the state capital to its state. The political stronghold of Minnesota.

[grindin]

I have a ton of relatives and friends in Maryland, and believe me, Baltimore folks don't like being mistaken for DC folks. At ALL. To be honest, it seems as if DC people turn their nose up at Baltimore people. To say DC is a lot more elitist than Baltimore would be a major understatement.

Just 35-45 minutes away, you're in a totally different major city with an identity and culture all it's own with it's own Media market, sports teams, and whatnot. While there are major differences between say, Dallas and Ft. Worth, it's an MSA wheras DC/Baltimore are a CSA for many reasons. Also, keep in mind that Baltimore became a "big city" well before Washington did, which probably explains a lot of the inter-regional nuances up there. There is still a bit of separation between DC and Baltimore. The only "mid-city" up there would be Columbia, MD (in terms of commuting patterns), and even then, I can see compelling arguments for why some consider Columbia a suburb of Baltimore and some who consider it both a suburb of DC and Baltimore.

FWIW, I know I was leaning towards Baltimore territory when I was in a Walmart in Laurel, MD and the cashier called me "Hon" (Baltimore slang). However, Laurel seems to be considered a DC suburb a lot more than a Baltimore suburb (since it's in Prince Georges County, I guess) While I consider Arlington a suburb of Ft. Worth, truth be told, there are probably almost as many people there that commute to Dallas as they do to Ft. Worth.

I've always looked at Oakland/Berkeley as the Brooklyn/Queens to San Francisco's Manhattan. If that makes any sense.

Minneapolis/St. Paul are the Twin Cities. Period. Obviously, there are major differences between the two, but I've never thought of St. Paul as a suburb of Minneapolis. Since it's the political capital of the state, it has an identity of its own.

[Metro Matt]

I've been to every one except Baltimore so I chose "all of the above".