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What are you talking about? I'm not sure if many posters know this about DC, but most government and non-profit employes don't even work until 5pm. Many have these flex schedules where they go into work around 7 or 7:30 and roll out around 3. Others have alternative work schedules. In short, federal employees are some of the least hardworking people in the United States. They have near absolute job security, wonderful benefits, great pensions, and thus have little incentive to do much of anything because performance doesn't impact their bottom line in any meaningful way.
Have you ever been in D.C. at 7 p.m. on a weekday? Ghost town it is not...lol. Where do you get these notions from? Shoot, have you ever been on the metro at 11:00 p.m. on a weekday? It's packed with people headed home from work. And most people working in D.C. don't work for the Federal government. Most agencies are moving out to the suburbs. Maybe I should take a picture of K street at 7 p.m. today to see if employees are leaving work....smh....
Have you ever been in D.C. at 7 p.m. on a weekday? Ghost town it is not...lol. Where do you get these notions from? Shoot, have you ever been on the metro at 11:00 p.m. on a weekday? It's packed with people headed home from work. And most people working in D.C. don't work for the Federal government. Most agencies are moving out to the suburbs. Maybe I should take a picture of K street at 7 p.m. today to see if employees are leaving work....smh....
You probably have District government employees ranking right behind the federal government. Then the NGO sector. Then private law.
The only sector working consistently past 7pm in DC is Big Law. And even then, they aren't working that late compared to Chicago, SF, LA, Atlanta, or even Miami. Litigation requires longer hours, but litigation is not a DC specific practice. Antitrust works pretty normal hours since the work distribution tends to be pretty even (unlike litigation, which is very cyclical). DC doesn't have any M&A work, which is really what keeps people working around the clock in NYC.
You probably have District government employees ranking right behind the federal government. Then the NGO sector. Then private law.
The only sector working consistently past 7pm in DC is Big Law. And even then, they aren't working that late compared to Chicago, SF, LA, Atlanta, or even Miami. Litigation requires longer hours, but litigation is not a DC specific practice. Antitrust works pretty normal hours since the work distribution tends to be pretty even (unlike litigation, which is very cyclical). DC doesn't have any M&A work, which is really what keeps people working around the clock in NYC.
Are you really trying to say DC is not more fast paced than Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, and SF? This is getting ridiculous. I know you moved from DC years ago, but your memory can't be this bad. It's a pretty accepted notion that NYC and DC are the most fast paced cities in the nation. People in DC go straight from the office to happy hour to network some more.
Are you really trying to say DC is not more fast paced than Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, and SF? This is getting ridiculous. I know you moved from DC years ago, but your memory can't be this bad. It's a pretty accepted notion that NYC and DC are the most fast paced cities in the nation. People in DC go straight from the office to happy hour to network some more.
Not really. Definitely not more "fast paced" than Chicago or San Francisco.
Only Big Law works long hours in DC and they don't even work that hard compared to Big Law elsewhere. Miami and Chicago actually have higher billable requirements than DC.
DC firms have more government-tailored practices (e.g., antitrust, government contracts, regulatory, etc)., which have a more predictable schedule, which means you have more stable hours (10-7). Then on top of that, the bonus structure isn't that great, which means the guy who bills 3,000 hours hardly makes more than the guy who bills 1,950. The result is that you don't have many people billing a ton of hours because there's not much to get out of it.
In NYC, the market is very different. Some firms are lockstep, which means people in the same class get the same bonus no matter what. But other firms have bonus structures that incentivize greater productivity. If your firm pays out a 75% bonus if you hit certain targets (that's a $120,000 bonus on top of $160,000 base for a first year), then you're going to have more people working longer hours. And NYC firms can pay those types of bonuses because the financial industry makes up such a large share of the client base.
Other industries in NYC also get lavish bonuses. You don't get that in DC so the work culture doesn't even come close to being the same.
Lol, the how hard do people work in DC debate is always pretty amusing. It seems in no other city is there such a wide discrepancy between how it views itself and how the rest of the country views it.
DC likes to think of itself as a Type-A, dog-eat-dog, rat race to rival NYC. Much of the rest of the country thinks of it as a 9-5 government town that shuts down on Columbus Day.
In practice, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. DC has a much higher share of upper-educated professionals who do work longer hours. Particularly those associated with senior government positions, media organizations, and lobbying. That being said, the Fed Govt (and lesser extent the NGOs and Trade Associations) never went through the "middle management downsizing" and outsourcing wave of the past 30 years. There are tons of middle skilled people working for the Fed government, whose "back office type" jobs would have been eliminated or outsourced to sunbelt office parks in the private sector.
On net, it probably washes out to the point, where DC is pretty equal to other "expensive urban markets" Bos, SF, Chi. The avg. downtown white collar work works less on average, but there are so many of them in DC, that there are still a large number who do work crazy hours. Hard to say with NYC. NYC has a surprising amount of 9-5 workers, but it also has lots of grunts who work long hours for low pay in hopes of making it big in "acting/fashion/pr/media/ even to some extent finance".
Not really. Definitely not more "fast paced" than Chicago or San Francisco.
Only Big Law works long hours in DC and they don't even work that hard compared to Big Law elsewhere. Miami and Chicago actually have higher billable requirements than DC.
DC firms have more government-tailored practices (e.g., antitrust, government contracts, regulatory, etc)., which have a more predictable schedule, which means you have more stable hours (10-7). Then on top of that, the bonus structure isn't that great, which means the guy who bills 3,000 hours hardly makes more than the guy who bills 1,950. The result is that you don't have many people billing a ton of hours because there's not much to get out of it.
In NYC, the market is very different. Some firms are lockstep, which means people in the same class get the same bonus no matter what. But other firms have bonus structures that incentivize greater productivity. If your firm pays out a 75% bonus if you hit certain targets (that's a $120,000 bonus on top of $160,000 base for a first year), then you're going to have more people working longer hours. And NYC firms can pay those types of bonuses because the financial industry makes up the lion's share of the client base.
Other industries in NYC also get lavish bonuses. You don't get that in DC so the work culture doesn't even come close to being the same.
You are talking about things that have nothing to do with lifestyle. You don't think people are more laid back in those cities compared to D.C.? Well, maybe D.C. is becoming chill now and isn't a career obsessed city anymore. Maybe we're the new L.A. or San Fran and enjoy life. Maybe we aren't classified as all type A personalities in a dog eat dog environment. Maybe we have started to stop and wait for traffic to stop because God forbid we jaywalk like we used to which many other cities just don't do. With these new revelations, we shouldn't hear everyone and their mother complain about those things anymore right? I don't think people from DC are proud of those things so it would be great if this was true. Could you please tell all the people in D.C. to stop talking about work in their free time too because we just don't fit the classification anymore. They are in the wrong city.
You are talking about things that have nothing to do with lifestyle. You don't think people are more laid back in those cities compared to D.C.? Well, maybe D.C. is becoming chill now and isn't a career obsessed city anymore. Maybe we're the new L.A. or San Fran and enjoy life. Maybe we aren't classified as all type A personalities in a dog eat dog environment. Maybe we have started to stop and wait for traffic to stop because God forbid we jaywalk like we used to which many other cities just don't do. With these new revelations, we shouldn't hear everyone and their mother complain about those things anymore right?
Man, I have no idea what city you are living in. Your idea of what you think DC is (Manhattan, Jr.) and reality do not align.
DC has some career-obsessed people, but that's not the same thing as working hard or working long hours. DC firms don't even have late night car service, which is something you're going to get working at investment banks/law firms in Manhattan. Even in the most prestigious private sector firms in DC (Hogan, Covington, A&P, etc.), they are working pretty standard hours. And government contractors have gravy schedules.
I don't see "hurry, hurry, hurry" in DC at all. If anything, I see inefficiency. How can a town that thrives off bureaucracy possibly be efficient?
Lol, the how hard do people work in DC debate is always pretty amusing. It seems in no other city is there such a wide discrepancy between how it views itself and how the rest of the country views it.
DC likes to think of itself as a Type-A, dog-eat-dog, rat race to rival NYC. Much of the rest of the country thinks of it as a 9-5 government town that shuts down on Columbus Day.
In practice, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. DC has a much higher share of upper-educated professionals who do work longer hours. Particularly those associated with senior government positions, media organizations, and lobbying. That being said, the Fed Govt (and lesser extent the NGOs and Trade Associations) never went through the "middle management downsizing" and outsourcing wave of the past 30 years. There are tons of middle skilled people working for the Fed government, whose "back office type" jobs would have been eliminated or outsourced to sunbelt office parks in the private sector.
On net, it probably washes out to the point, where DC is pretty equal to other "expensive urban markets" Bos, SF, Chi, Seattle. The avg. downtown white collar work works less on average, but there are so many of them in DC, that there are still a large number who do work crazy hours. Hard to say with NYC. NYC has a surprising amount of 9-5 workers, but it also has lots of grunts who work long hours for low pay in hopes of making it big in "acting/fashion/pr/media/ even to some extent finance".
We are fun loving and like to have a good time in D.C. People care about the enjoyment of life and having fun. We work to live in D.C., we don't live to work like San Fran or L.A. We head to the beach and do outdoorsy activities in the warm months.
Man, I have no idea what city you are living in. Your idea of what you think DC is (Manhattan, Jr.) and reality do not align.
DC has some career-obsessed people, but that's not the same thing as working hard or working long hours. DC firms don't even have late night car service, which is something you're going to get working at investment banks/law firms in Manhattan. Even in the most prestigious private sector firms in DC (Hogan, Covington, A&P, etc.), they are working pretty standard hours. And government contractors have gravy schedules.
I don't see "hurry, hurry, hurry" in DC at all. If anything, I see inefficiency.
I was agreeing with you. Now, could you please go over to the D.C. home board and tell them to put the crack pipe down. All you see there is people just work here, people only think about work here, people only make friends for work advancement here, people go on dates here to network. If you let them tell it, D.C. isn't the fun, laid back, family oriented, friendly city we both know it to be. We both know D.C. is a place you come to when you want to cast your worries aside and vacation. It's just like San Diego.
Lol, the how hard do people work in DC debate is always pretty amusing. It seems in no other city is there such a wide discrepancy between how it views itself and how the rest of the country views it.
DC likes to think of itself as a Type-A, dog-eat-dog, rat race to rival NYC. Much of the rest of the country thinks of it as a 9-5 government town that shuts down on Columbus Day.
In practice, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. DC has a much higher share of upper-educated professionals who do work longer hours. Particularly those associated with senior government positions, media organizations, and lobbying. That being said, the Fed Govt (and lesser extent the NGOs and Trade Associations) never went through the "middle management downsizing" and outsourcing wave of the past 30 years. There are tons of middle skilled people working for the Fed government, whose "back office type" jobs would have been eliminated or outsourced to sunbelt office parks in the private sector.
On net, it probably washes out to the point, where DC is pretty equal to other "expensive urban markets" Bos, SF, Chi. The avg. downtown white collar work works less on average, but there are so many of them in DC, that there are still a large number who do work crazy hours. Hard to say with NYC. NYC has a surprising amount of 9-5 workers, but it also has lots of grunts who work long hours for low pay in hopes of making it big in "acting/fashion/pr/media/ even to some extent finance".
You are going to work longer hours at any job that pays you more than $100,000 per year. That's just the reality of it. It's not like the guys working in VC in SF/Silicon Valley get to cut loose at 4:30 everyday and throw frisbee. When you make a lot of money, that usually means somebody is paying you a lot of money, and people who pay lots of money for a service have high expectations. That means you can expect to be chained to a blackberry most weekends.
Now what DC does have is a business card culture where many social interactions seem to revolve around work. I could be wrong, but my guess is that people in other cities don't walk around everywhere with a wallet full of business cards. You really don't even see that in NYC. Once work is done, it's done.
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