U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Which city is the capital of Black America in your opinion?
NYC Area 51 5.37%
Phil 17 1.79%
DC 93 9.79%
Atlanta 554 58.32%
Memphis 10 1.05%
New ORleans 24 2.53%
Houston 16 1.68%
Seattle 10 1.05%
Chicago 26 2.74%
Detroit 66 6.95%
Other (include in your reply) 10 1.05%
There is none. 73 7.68%
Voters: 950. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-22-2019, 04:20 PM
 
51 posts, read 18,026 times
Reputation: 38

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485 View Post
It’s way too segregated for me to feel like it’s the black Capitol.


Atlanta, from my experience, feels like a much, much blacker city and overall more integrated. DC feels very segregated, and for the areas that are gentrifying, it feels not so much as integration, rather, pushing black folk out.


Im not black so I’m not sure if that makes my perception different. But that’s my personal experience.
DC is not segregated anymore than Atlanta, in Atlanta and DC it's about money not race

Atlanta and DC are best options for black americans

Average Wealthy Private school enrollment in DC is 15% black and 55% white, Average Wealthy Private school enrollment in Atl is 10% black 65% white
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-22-2019, 05:02 PM
 
571 posts, read 598,984 times
Reputation: 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
This is incorrect. It is based on cultural differences regarding value. Black people in general place more value on space (more house for your money) while white people generally place more value on location and amenities when talking about city living.

This is why white people will pay to live in a small studio or 1-bedroom apartment right in the center of everything above a trendy coffee shop or restaurant for the same amount of money that it would cost them to live in a large 3-bedroom home in the suburbs. Black people, on the other hand, would generally rather live in the 3-bedroom home than pay the same amount for a studio in a trendy neighborhood.

That is why black people are moving away from inner city neighborhoods. It's not that they can't afford to live there. They don't think it's worth paying that much money to live there when they could get more for their money.

Personally, I think its sad because black people always seem to be a day late and a dollar short. We owned all these homes in the cities across the nation and then developers came in offering us cash for our homes and we sold instead of keeping our homes. Now, many people have moved to the suburbs and bought large houses that won't be worth anything in the future as they age while homes in the city will continue to skyrocket in value as everyone now wants to get back into the city.
I think you way over-simplified why so many Black people in various cities sold their homes to developers. Some may have sold just to cash out and get a bigger home in the suburbs, but I assure you many indeed could no longer afford to live in their homes. Plenty held out as long as they could, but some folks couldn't afford to pay the skyrocketing property taxes on their homes as their property increased in value due to new development and gentrification. I'm specifically thinking of older people, many who were retired and on fixed incomes, who had lived in their homes for decades. Those folks didn't just cash out and uproot their lives because they saw dollar signs and had dreams of living in a big house in the suburbs. Saying that Black people always seem to be a day late and a dollar short is a rather myopic view of a much more complicated and nuanced issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2019, 08:55 PM
 
9,744 posts, read 11,191,772 times
Reputation: 2273
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbsnm View Post
I think you way over-simplified why so many Black people in various cities sold their homes to developers. Some may have sold just to cash out and get a bigger home in the suburbs, but I assure you many indeed could no longer afford to live in their homes. Plenty held out as long as they could, but some folks couldn't afford to pay the skyrocketing property taxes on their homes as their property increased in value due to new development and gentrification. I'm specifically thinking of older people, many who were retired and on fixed incomes, who had lived in their homes for decades. Those folks didn't just cash out and uproot their lives because they saw dollar signs and had dreams of living in a big house in the suburbs. Saying that Black people always seem to be a day late and a dollar short is a rather myopic view of a much more complicated and nuanced issue.
That doesn’t apply to DC. We have tax relief for our residents especially if you’re elderly. Also, many times, grandma and grandpa died and the kids sold for the profit. In DC historically, people thought you had made it if you moved to Maryland. That was the come up back in the 1980s and 1990s. Now, you’ve only made it if you have the money to buy in DC. Sadly, most people will never be able to set foot in DC again because prices have moved out of reach. I tried my best to convince as many people as I could to buy in DC years ago, but many waited too long. Now, it’s too late.

This is actually evident as many black people move to Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston for cheaper housing. Meanwhile, the wealth is in NYC, DC, Boston, and San Fran. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Black people should be flocking to where the money is. That is the safest investment. Then a recession comes and we wonder why our houses aren’t worth anything. It’s because nobody is buying them. The demand isn’t there. Price stabilization is based on demand.

Last edited by MDAllstar; 01-22-2019 at 09:09 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2019, 09:01 PM
 
879 posts, read 867,631 times
Reputation: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
This is incorrect. It is based on cultural differences regarding value. Black people in general place more value on space (more house for your money) while white people generally place more value on location and amenities when talking about city living.

This is why white people will pay to live in a small studio or 1-bedroom apartment right in the center of everything above a trendy coffee shop or restaurant for the same amount of money that it would cost them to live in a large 3-bedroom home in the suburbs. Black people, on the other hand, would generally rather live in the 3-bedroom home than pay the same amount for a studio in a trendy neighborhood.

That is why black people are moving away from inner city neighborhoods. It's not that they can't afford to live there. They don't think it's worth paying that much money to live there when they could get more for their money.

Personally, I think its sad because black people always seem to be a day late and a dollar short. We owned all these homes in the cities across the nation and then developers came in offering us cash for our homes and we sold instead of keeping our homes. Now, many people have moved to the suburbs and bought large houses that won't be worth anything in the future as they age while homes in the city will continue to skyrocket in value as everyone now wants to get back into the city.
Both you and the poster you quoted are correct
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2019, 09:13 PM
 
28,873 posts, read 26,188,135 times
Reputation: 17442
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
This is incorrect. It is based on cultural differences regarding value. Black people in general place more value on space (more house for your money) while white people generally place more value on location and amenities when talking about city living.

This is why white people will pay to live in a small studio or 1-bedroom apartment right in the center of everything above a trendy coffee shop or restaurant for the same amount of money that it would cost them to live in a large 3-bedroom home in the suburbs. Black people, on the other hand, would generally rather live in the 3-bedroom home than pay the same amount for a studio in a trendy neighborhood.

That is why black people are moving away from inner city neighborhoods. It's not that they can't afford to live there. They don't think it's worth paying that much money to live there when they could get more for their money.

Personally, I think its sad because black people always seem to be a day late and a dollar short. We owned all these homes in the cities across the nation and then developers came in offering us cash for our homes and we sold instead of keeping our homes. Now, many people have moved to the suburbs and bought large houses that won't be worth anything in the future as they age while homes in the city will continue to skyrocket in value as everyone now wants to get back into the city.
Your post lacks historical context. Seeing as though Black people have really only been free to live wherever they wanted to in cities/metro areas for a couple decades now, the value that Blacks put a premium on more than anything is choice with value coming in a close second. For most of this country's history, Blacks were restricted to only living in parts of central cities in major urban areas, and they weren't the best parts due to our overall lower socioeconomic status and neglect from just about all levels of government. So when discriminatory laws were overturned nationwide and we were given options, we began exploring them. And because we were legally allowed full entrance into the country's labor markets around that same time and were only beginning to build our wealth, most of us settled on the most economical options.

As far as Black folks selling their homes in central cities for little profit, you're forgetting the correlation between demographics and home values. When cities first began gentrifying, of course there wouldn't be as much profit to be had and if none of the Black residents sold, it's very doubtful if there would've even been an urban gentrification/redevelopment phenomenon to begin with or it could have possibly occurred much later in cities with urban ethnic/immigrant neighborhoods. The sad part to me is when a city is in the more advanced stages of gentrification and Black families sell their homes at a profit, but significantly less for what they could have if they had been a bit more informed about all the factors in play.

But at the end of the day, the general principle is that home values, whether in the central cities or suburbs, will be positively correlated with the demographic that has long held most of the wealth in our country's history and negatively correlated with the demographic that was systematically shut out of the wealth-building process via home ownership in the mid-20th century.

Last edited by Mutiny77; 01-22-2019 at 09:22 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2019, 09:23 PM
 
9,744 posts, read 11,191,772 times
Reputation: 2273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Your post lacks historical context. Seeing as though Black people have really only been free to live wherever they wanted to in cities/metro areas for a couple decades now, the value that Blacks put a premium on more than anything is choice with value coming in a close second. For most of this country's history, Blacks were restricted to only living in parts of central cities in major urban areas, and they weren't the best parts due to our overall lower socioeconomic status and neglect from just about all levels of government. So when discriminatory laws were overturned nationwide and we were given options, we began exploring them. And because we were legally allowed full entrance into the country's labor markets around that same time and were only beginning to build our wealth, most of us settled on the most economical options.

As far as Black folks selling their homes in central cities for little profit, you're forgetting the correlation between demographics and home values. When cities first began gentrifying, of course there wouldn't be as much profit to be had and if none of the Black residents sold, it's very doubtful if there would've even been an urban gentrification/redevelopment phenomenon to begin with or it could have possibly occurred much later in cities with urban ethnic/immigrant neighborhoods. The sad part to me is when a city is in the more advanced stages of gentrification and Black families sell their homes at a profit, but significantly less for what they could have if they had been a bit more informed about all the factors in play.
I didn’t lack historical context in my point, I just didn’t eleborate on why we had those values. What you said is true, however, the problem I’m speaking about is happening now in 2019. It’s crazy that black people don’t realize value is not in size, but location in 2019. We are leaving the places where the money is going. Makes no sense at all. We buy expensive clothes and cars for the quality, yet we don’t buy homes for quality based on where they are located. We leave cities that will always have investment and be expensive moving south to cheaper cities that aren’t gateway cities. I have friends in Atlanta with houses still worth only half of what they paid for them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2019, 11:10 PM
 
28,873 posts, read 26,188,135 times
Reputation: 17442
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
I didnít lack historical context in my point, I just didnít eleborate on why we had those values. What you said is true, however, the problem Iím speaking about is happening now in 2019. Itís crazy that black people donít realize value is not in size, but location in 2019. We are leaving the places where the money is going. Makes no sense at all. We buy expensive clothes and cars for the quality, yet we donít buy homes for quality based on where they are located. We leave cities that will always have investment and be expensive moving south to cheaper cities that arenít gateway cities. I have friends in Atlanta with houses still worth only half of what they paid for them.
Well there are all sorts of reasons Blacks leave the urban cores of rapidly gentrifying Northern cities, and they don't always leave for the suburbs of Southern cities; seems like half the time, they head straight for suburbia in the region where they already reside, and predominantly Black suburban neighborhoods across the country have had issues with recovering home values. That's definitely not an Atlanta- or Southern-specific issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2019, 06:27 AM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
4,309 posts, read 2,155,212 times
Reputation: 2621
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
This is incorrect. It is based on cultural differences regarding value. Black people in general place more value on space (more house for your money) while white people generally place more value on location and amenities when talking about city living.

This is why white people will pay to live in a small studio or 1-bedroom apartment right in the center of everything above a trendy coffee shop or restaurant for the same amount of money that it would cost them to live in a large 3-bedroom home in the suburbs. Black people, on the other hand, would generally rather live in the 3-bedroom home than pay the same amount for a studio in a trendy neighborhood.

That is why black people are moving away from inner city neighborhoods. It's not that they can't afford to live there. They don't think it's worth paying that much money to live there when they could get more for their money.

Personally, I think its sad because black people always seem to be a day late and a dollar short. We owned all these homes in the cities across the nation and then developers came in offering us cash for our homes and we sold instead of keeping our homes. Now, many people have moved to the suburbs and bought large houses that won't be worth anything in the future as they age while homes in the city will continue to skyrocket in value as everyone now wants to get back into the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbsnm View Post
I think you way over-simplified why so many Black people in various cities sold their homes to developers. Some may have sold just to cash out and get a bigger home in the suburbs, but I assure you many indeed could no longer afford to live in their homes. Plenty held out as long as they could, but some folks couldn't afford to pay the skyrocketing property taxes on their homes as their property increased in value due to new development and gentrification. I'm specifically thinking of older people, many who were retired and on fixed incomes, who had lived in their homes for decades. Those folks didn't just cash out and uproot their lives because they saw dollar signs and had dreams of living in a big house in the suburbs. Saying that Black people always seem to be a day late and a dollar short is a rather myopic view of a much more complicated and nuanced issue.
+1 gibbsnm;
@mdallstar: black persons arent a monolith. my parents/uncles/aunts/several of their friends/... didnt move to their section of boston because they valued space. language and access to markets were the biggest concerns. even quality schools wasnt a big concern because even a failing school system is a step up from no public school option in haiti. and not having access to cars meant suburban living would be tough. its really only this decade where black persons are complaining the gentrifiers are starting to push them to the suburbs.
ayanna pressley won the 7th based on that campaign premise (linda florry previously on the state sanate also addresses these concerns).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2019, 07:23 AM
 
9,744 posts, read 11,191,772 times
Reputation: 2273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Well there are all sorts of reasons Blacks leave the urban cores of rapidly gentrifying Northern cities, and they don't always leave for the suburbs of Southern cities; seems like half the time, they head straight for suburbia in the region where they already reside, and predominantly Black suburban neighborhoods across the country have had issues with recovering home values. That's definitely not an Atlanta- or Southern-specific issue.
Agreed, but my point is supported by what you're saying. They leave the city proper of cities in the northeast for their suburbs in search of more space for less money. It's the same reason we move south. We tend to want the most for the least. That's actually why our home values in black neighborhoods in the suburbs suffer. For homes values to rebound, consumers have to be willing to pay over asking price. The bidding wars drive up costs and protect home values. Home value is based on comparable housing transactions (comps). If someone pays $20,000 over asking price, everyone in that neighborhood just received a bump in value. Alternatively, if someone sells their house for under asking price or is foreclosed on, everyone takes a hit in value.

How does a neighborhood avoid foreclosure? Be a hot neighborhood with very high demand. The bidding wars seen in NYC, D.C., San Fran, and Boston proper drive up the cost of housing. The "get the most for the least" mentality hurts that process. That's why black neighborhoods don't rebound as fast unless people "willing to pay more for less" are buying homes there. Southern cities are seeing bidding wars too now and many black families are moving out to the suburbs. It seems we were so eager to get to the suburbs in the past when white flight happened that we haven't realized white people are currently headed back into the city now that we have the chance to go get our "Leave it to Beaver" lifestyle with the picket fence and dog. I wish we would follow the money. The suburban push is over. In the future, money will be in the city and the lower income areas will be in the suburbs. It's already started actually.

The Suburban Mystique: How the symbol of American prosperity became the new place of poverty.

Last edited by MDAllstar; 01-23-2019 at 07:41 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2019, 07:45 AM
 
879 posts, read 867,631 times
Reputation: 763
The reason home values in black neighborhoods is less is due to race. Plenty of evidence about that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top