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Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Reputation: 7323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
It's amazing to me how ignorant you seem to be. I have stated nothing but things you also agree with and I have not disagreed with anything you have said.
This is what I have said:
-D.C. is more urban than Atlanta
-New York is more urban than DC
-Black people do chose to live in the suburbs more often than not
-An urban or suburban built environment is not the primary reason many people use when deciding on a home
-Black people moving to Atlanta and DC are doing so for reason's other than the built environment more often than not
Now.......
I have two recent experiences that clash (and compliment) above post. While one can go on all day about what constitutions a place being more (or less) "urban", you I think use it in the incorrect way. The word you are really looking for is compact. And, yes, it doesn't take a genius to know that DC is in fact more compact than Atlanta. DC is 2.5 more compact residentially than Atlanta.
However, just stating that alone doesn't really mean much since both cities became big during the same era and (at least in the central parts of old Atlanta) play heavily from the same styles and layouts of residential neighborhoods. They also both have good modern subway coverage in the central city that snakes through the major business districts and residential neighborhoods. In some ways they best each other with certain things like DC's blocks upon blocks of terraced housing, or with Atlanta's high rise apartments and large residential apartment blocks. To say one is defined more urban though seems odd to me because I don't think either really beat each other out.
This comes to second thing I have a problem with which is the above comparison of how Atlanta is to DC in how DC is to NYC. Respectfully, nothing more ridiculous could be written. While there is difference in residential density of 2.5 between Atlanta and DC, Manhattan is 7 times more compact than DC in residential density. That is not a trivial difference and not at all comparable to the difference between DC and Atlanta. Basically what I'm saying is that it is fair and true to say that DC is more compact (and even better designed and laid out) than Atlanta, but this "more urban" nonsense is exactly that.
This two points do make an odd confluence in two ways though. I was recently in NYC visiting family when I had an interesting conversation with my aunt, who relocated to suburban DC a few years ago, that went like this (in the deepest Queens accent you can imagine):
Aunt: I can't stand Virginia!
Me: Why, I thought it's nice there and you have a big house now?
Aunt: Oh it is nice, and I do love my new big house.
Me: So what's the problem?
Aunt: The people! They say things like "people down South are county and backwards" and try to act like they live in the North. {laughs to herself}
Me: Yeah, I've heard that a few times.
Aunt: Well it's stupid. Do they even hear themselves when they speak?
In short, you can call Atlanta country all you want, but from outside the DC area people say the same thing about you (it's not right either).
I 100% agree with your assessment of where black folks are moving to in DC and Atlanta both: the suburbs. My aunt did it, and literally millions of others over the last few decades. DC and Atlanta need to do a better job at making the city proper appealing to low income (but hard working) and middle class black families. A lot of poor and middle income black folks are moving to the burbs because they can't afford to live in the city or have the other lifestyle options they want like better schools or grocery stores in neighborhoods that aren't broke down corner stores. Both issues though I think are being addressed by current city leadership in both cities through various initiatives.
Disclaimer: The above story isn't an indignation of all DC residents. There is a distinct sense of pride there of the city itself that those residents do not try to attach to "the North" like they are part of it. It just really irks me when I hear from a shirtless, yuck mouth, yokel from DC or "Virginny".
Disclaimer: I am not insinuating that MDAllstar is a shirtless, yuck mouth, yokel from DC or "Virginny".
Last edited by waronxmas; 04-03-2012 at 12:02 PM..
I'm really surprised the poll is so lopsided considering DC has so many institutions (or organizations headquartered there):
Howard University
Congressional Black Caucus Institute
National Association of Black Journalists
National Medical Association
National Bar Association
National Society of Black Engineers
Student National Medical Association
National Black Law Students Association
NAACP (DC/Baltimore)
Alpha Phi Alpha
The Links
Listen up southerner, D.C. is in the south. Dont ever claim the northeast again. Try visiting Philly, NYC, Boston and experiencing the real northeast before you try to say you share cultures with us
I have two recent experiences that clash (and compliment) above post. While one can go on all day about what constitutions a place being more (or less) "urban", you I think use it in the incorrect way. The word you are really looking for is compact. And, yes, it doesn't take a genius to know that DC is in fact more compact than Atlanta. DC is 2.5 more compact residentially than Atlanta.
However, just stating that alone doesn't really mean much since both cities became big during the same era and (at least in the central parts of old Atlanta) play heavily from the same styles and layouts of residential neighborhoods. They also both have good modern subway coverage in the central city that snakes through the major business districts and residential neighborhoods. In some ways they best each other with certain things like DC's blocks upon blocks of terraced housing, or with Atlanta's high rise apartments and large residential apartment blocks. To say one is defined more urban though seems odd to me because I don't think either really beat each other out.
This comes to second thing I have a problem with which is the above comparison of how Atlanta is to DC in how DC is to NYC. Respectfully, nothing more ridiculous could be written. While there is difference in residential density of 2.5 between Atlanta and DC, Manhattan is 7 times more compact than DC in residential density. That is not a trivial difference and not at all comparable to the difference between DC and Atlanta. Basically what I'm saying is that it is fair and true to say that DC is more compact (and even better designed and laid out) than Atlanta, but this "more urban" nonsense is exactly that.
This two points do make an odd confluence in two ways though. I was recently in NYC visiting family when I had an interesting conversation with my aunt, who relocated to suburban DC a few years ago, that went like this (in the deepest Queens accent you can imagine):
Aunt: I can't stand Virginia!
Me: Why, I thought it's nice there and you have a big house now?
Aunt: Oh it is nice, and I do love my new big house.
Me: So what's the problem?
Aunt: The people! They say things like "people down South are county and backwards" and try to act like they live in the North. {laughs to herself}
Me: Yeah, I've heard that a few times.
Aunt: Well it's stupid. Do they even hear themselves when they speak?
In short, you can call Atlanta country all you want, but from outside the DC area people say the same thing about you (it's not right either).
I 100% agree with your assessment of where black folks are moving to in DC and Atlanta both: the suburbs. My aunt did it, and literally millions of others over the last few decades. DC and Atlanta need to do a better job at making the city proper appealing to low income (but hard working) and middle class black families. A lot of poor and middle income black folks are moving to the burbs because they can't afford to live in the city or have the other lifestyle options they want like better schools or grocery stores in neighborhoods that aren't broke down corner stores. Both issues though I think are being addressed by current city leadership in both cities through various initiatives.
Disclaimer: The above story isn't an indignation of all DC residents. There is a distinct sense of pride there of the city itself that those residents do not try to attach to "the North" like they are part of it. It just really irks me when I hear from a shirtless, yuck mouth, yokel from DC or "Virginny".
Disclaimer: I am not insinuating that MDAllstar is a shirtless, yuck mouth, yokel from DC or "Virginny".
Ummm...couple things
Urban means compact. That is the definition of urban so I don't know what you are talking about.
Also, we are talking about the built environment here, not the population density. The built environment density in DC compared to Atlanta is about the same as Manhattan to DC. The built environment in DC is pulling away from Atlanta at hyper speed right not also with an infill construction percentage that leads the nation. There is absolutely no comparison with DC proper housing and Atlanta. Also, the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor has a denser built environment than Midtown ATL and DC proper runs circles around Arlington in building density. This is really apples and oranges.
Last but not least, I didn't make a comparison of NYC to DC, that was someone else. Because you didnt read this thread, you drew the conclusion that I said Newyork is to DC as DC is to Atlanta. Never happened!
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,985,810 times
Reputation: 7323
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Ummm...couple things
Urban means compact. That is the definition of urban so I don't know what you are talking about.
That is one feature of urban spaces, but not it's sole factor. That is your definition, and sadly what passes for truth on C-D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Also, we are talking about the built environment here, not the population density. The built environment density in DC compared to Atlanta is about the same as Manhattan to DC. The built environment in DC is pulling away from Atlanta at hyper speed right not also with an infill construction percentage that leads the nation. There is absolutely no comparison with DC proper housing and Atlanta. Also, the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor has a denser built environment than Midtown ATL and DC proper runs circles around Arlington in building density. This is really apples and oranges.
LMAO!
You really think that don't you. I'll save you the trouble of fighting back and forth (mostly because I'm not going to respond after this) and say no. Just step back for a second and stop looking at superficial things. Every city has different factors that make up the fabric to it's urban character.
And don't so stuck up on DC pulling away from Atlanta. There is a brick wall that DC will eventually hit and it's called height restrictions. 800,000 to 1 million is probably the most that could ever fit in DC if it ever happens. Stop being so competitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Last but not least, I didn't make a comparison of NYC to DC, that was someone else. Because you didnt read this thread, you drew the conclusion that I said Newyork is to DC as DC is to Atlanta. Never happened!
I'm starting to wonder if you have ever been to NYC, if you have been to Atlanta, or both.
Listen up southerner, D.C. is in the south. Dont ever claim the northeast again. Try visiting Philly, NYC, Boston and experiencing the real northeast before you try to say you share cultures with us
D.C. is not the South. D.C. has more in common with Boston, NYC, and Philly, than Atlanta or Memphis.
Even down to the accent. You almost need a translator to understand native ATLiens. D.C. is considered the Mid-Atlantic. As someone who lived in Atlanta for 10 years, I have a good take on this subject. Nothing comes close to these two cities as far as density of blacks per capital. I will give the slight nod to D.C. due to it having more black wealth. Blacks in D.C. are more educated on the average. My wife was born and raised in NW D.C., and everyone in here family is highly educated. I'm talking Masters and PHD. I was almost embarrassed to tell them that I'm only an undergrad of Alabama State University.
That is one feature of urban spaces, but not it's sole factor. That is your definition, and sadly what passes for truth on C-D.
LMAO!
You really think that don't you. I'll save you the trouble of fighting back and forth (mostly because I'm not going to respond after this) and say no. Just step back for a second and stop looking at superficial things. Every city has different factors that make up the fabric to it's urban character.
And don't so stuck up on DC pulling away from Atlanta. There is a brick wall that DC will eventually hit and it's called height restrictions. 800,000 to 1 million is probably the most that could ever fit in DC if it ever happens. Stop being so competitive.
I'm starting to wonder if you have ever been to NYC, if you have been to Atlanta, or both.
DC had 800,000 people in 1950, so the city definitely can grow to more than a milli.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,985,810 times
Reputation: 7323
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I'm really surprised the poll is so lopsided considering DC has so many institutions (or organizations headquartered there):
Howard University
Congressional Black Caucus Institute
National Association of Black Journalists
National Medical Association
National Bar Association
National Society of Black Engineers
Student National Medical Association
National Black Law Students Association
NAACP (DC/Baltimore)
Alpha Phi Alpha
The Links
One reason:
For every one but black folks, the first thing they think when you say "DC" is "the Federal government". For every one but black folks, the first thing they think when you say "Atlanta" is "black folks". We had better marketing.
With that said you have a valid point and if this were a poll of just black people it would probably be 50/50 between DC and Atlanta.
Howard is larger than the AUC schools combined. Plus, Howard has a school of engineering, dentistry, architecture, business, medicine, pharmacy and law. It also has a hospital. CAU, the only "University" in the AUC, does not have any of those.
And while DC public schools are pretty terrible, there are at least a few bright spots in Benjamin Banneker, the School Without Walls and Duke Ellington (all 3 are majority-black magnet schools). If you decide to opt for the suburbs, I'd say that Blair, Blake, Springbrook, Eleanor Roosevelt, High Point and Bowie are majority-black (or plurality black) high schools you could feel reasonably comfortable sending your kids to.
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