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View Poll Results: Which city is more urban at street level?
Philadelphia 221 41.00%
Chicago 318 59.00%
Voters: 539. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-25-2010, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 16,032,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prelude91 View Post
Danny, I usually enjoy reading your posts, and for the most part I agree with what you are saying. I love both Chicago (my home town) and Philadelphia (City I have visited literally hundreds of times), and to me, they are more similar than many are willing to admit.
Its not just that, its just that I guess Philadelphians are the fastest to get on my nerves, most of the time I just look over it.
To be honest, I respect every poster out there for what its worth and their cities, this was the first time I've even resorted to putting a city down (and it goes against everything I believe in) to make a point. Because I'm just not that kind of poster, but honestly, some of the posters can just go. Yes just leave and never post again, they don't contribute anything besides their personal biases, I'm a stats person, I like to see proof for everything.
I do apologize to the Philadelphians that did think of my post as an attack to their city, because I honestly don't post in that nature on a "norm" day. I've just been having a sequence of cruddy days and honestly I just have low tolerance with the Philadelphians on this section of this site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prelude91 View Post
To get back to the argument of which is more urban at street level, they define urban in different ways: Downtown Chicago (Loop, river north, Mag mile) is in a different league than anything in Philly in terms of sheer size. Public transportation in Chicago (Metra, CTA) is clearly #2 in the US trailing on NYC (by a good margin). One thing I notice that Chicago trails to east coast cities is Transit Oriented Development: The core of Chicago is littered with surface parking lots/drive thrus/etc all within walking distance of CTA stops, and while this exists in Philly to an extent, I believe that Chicago has much more of it. Also, I think it can be argued that all of these new highrise condos that are going up all around the South Loop, West Loop, Streeterville really destroy the urban fabric of the neighborhoods. Each new building is required to have more than 1 off street parking space per unit, which leads to these huge parking structures that take up a square block. Somebody argued that they prefer highrise living and that they dont need to leave their building for their ammenities, all of which is fine, but I think that really takes away from the character of a neighborhood. Walk around the South Loop, Streeterville (east of michigan ave), or west loop, and you will find some of the most soul-less neighborhoods in the city. This would be my argument as to why somebody would think Philly is more urban/vibrant at street level. However, when factoring in the sum of both cities, I would give the edge to Chicago, but wouldnt think twice if somebody said Philadelphia.
I like the developments in South Loop though and I love what Chicago is doing to itself. It's adding in nearly about 20,000 in its city per year and its economy has stabilized. These are all great things happening to Chicago, and I don't doubt at all that this great city will have any problems getting above 3 million people by 2017-2020.
The signs are all there, and its doing a lot of great things for itself. I'm happy to see it making swift progress.

From 2002-2006 has just been a sequence of dark times for Chicago which in 2007 it turned it around, and thats a great sign. I cant wait to see what it says in the 2010 census, and Chicagoland is actually growing at a very healthy pace. Especially compared to its peer (Los Angeles).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Good post, but do you think Chicago really has a better public transportation system than Boston?
Boston:


Chicago:
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Old 10-25-2010, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago
4,745 posts, read 5,568,351 times
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If nothing else Chicago is a much more diverse and active city than Philadelphia with better dining and nightlife. There's a reason Chicago gets almost 20 million more vistiors annually than Philadelphia.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:05 PM
 
1,750 posts, read 3,389,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Good post, but do you think Chicago really has a better public transportation system than Boston?

And speaking of "soul-less" neighborhoods, I think that DC has quite a few. The new area around the baseball stadium (Navy Yard) is the perfect example. They're also building a new area around the ATF building, called "NOMA," which feels very sterile. Wide streets and shiny towers do not a city make. It's like city planners are determined to bring suburban office parks to the city.

http://www.nomabid.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Washington_DC_Economic_Partnership_NoMa_Profile_20 10.pdf (broken link)
IMO, Chicago does have a slightly better system than Boston, but again, they are very close, so I would have no problem with somebody suggesting otherwise.

Yes, the Navy Yards is a bit "soul-less" but like many other up and coming neighborhoods starting from scratch, it will take time to mature into a "real" neighborhood.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:11 PM
 
1,750 posts, read 3,389,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNYY View Post
It's adding in nearly about 20,000 in its city per year and its economy has stabilized. These are all great things happening to Chicago, and I don't doubt at all that this great city will have any problems getting above 3 million people by 2017-2020.
The signs are all there, and its doing a lot of great things for itself. I'm happy to see it making swift progress.

From 2002-2006 has just been a sequence of dark times for Chicago which in 2007 it turned it around, and thats a great sign. I cant wait to see what it says in the 2010 census, and Chicagoland is actually growing at a very healthy pace. Especially compared to its peer (Los Angeles).

I would love to see Chicago get back over 3 million people, but at the end of the day, the 3 million milestone is nothing more than that, a number. The population of Chicago now is less than it was it 1980, but I would challenge you to find anybody who thinks the city was better off then than it is now (I wasnt alive so I cant speak on it). I truly believe that economic recession aside, Chicago is as great as it has ever been. I also believe that Philadelphia is about where Chicago was in 1995, on the verge of completely transforming itself, and I believe that both cities will continue to reinvent themselves in the future.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Denver
6,625 posts, read 14,450,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNYY View Post
Boston:


Chicago:
I know this is the smallest part of your post, but I think it's hard to put Chicago or Boston ahead of one another in terms of mass transit. You need to zoom in on this map quite a bit (140-150% seemed to be best for me), but when you compare the two maps, they seem on par with one another. Chicago's coverage is more extensive, but Boston's core coverage is better. Overall I'd say they're equal.

Last edited by tmac9wr; 10-25-2010 at 02:23 PM..
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:28 PM
 
1,449 posts, read 2,185,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNYY View Post
What? Do you know what you're saying and do you realize that its you saying this? (YOU of all people) What a brilliant deduction gwilly, lets go onward Chicago bashing because its the cool thing to do, lets do it because everyone else is doing it, lets do it because I have nothing to contribute at all in this thread and I will sit here and piggy back what my fellow homeboy Philadelphians are saying because they seem to be making "valid points".

Oh look its you again. Done watching the boards for other cities and causing trouble for people in other cities?

You know what I find hilarious, that you seem to be the most lax poster here. You don't contribute anything to the conversation besides things that come out of your feelings, I never see you post any stats or information or anything or even any experiences, you just seem to show up in a thread to come and criticize a city every single time. Your history says it all. I always see you take these petty shots at other cities all the time, and quite frankly having dealt with you before it is a nuisance. You paint Philadelphia out to be a perfect Utopian society as if no problems exist, and honestly its not. Let me provide you with stats that you cant ever get yourself so that way you can let reality set in.

Philadelphia more urban? Possibly yes, I give it that credit, that it could be. I'm no homer, thats why you don't see my city's name in my screen name.
Philadelphians calling out Chicagoans for any inferiority complex especially coming from the ones that go into the boards of other cities preaching their little "if we had X amount of miles mantra" its a joke and a very humorous one at that.

It's a fact: Chicago is wealthier than Philadelphia
It's a fact: Chicago is more known than Philadelphia
It's a fact: Chicago is the more important city than Philadelphia
It's a fact: Chicago is a true global city (the 2nd in America) and Philadelphia is not on its level
It's a fact: Chicago's crime rate is lower than Philadelphia's. Chicago's been shaving its homocide rate Philadelphia hasn't
It's a fact: Chicago's poverty rate is lower than Philadelphia'a
It's a fact: Chicago's economy is larger than Philadelphia's
It's a fact: Chicago is viewed as a World Class City and higher than Philadelphia

Want proof for everything I've said? I'm never a poster to say things without proof.

Per Capita Income 2008:
Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI (CSA) $52,427
Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD (CSA) $50,534

GDP Output 2008:
Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI CSA $526.895 Billion
Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI Metro Area $520,672
Kankakee-Bradley, IL Metro Area $3,094
Michigan City-La Porte, IN Metro Area $3,336

Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD CSA $351.680 Billion
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD Metro Area $331,897
Reading, PA Metro Area $14,838
Vineland-Millville-Bridgeton, NJ Metro Area $4,945

Poverty Rate:
01. Detroit, 33.3% in poverty
02. Cleveland, 30.5% in poverty
03. Buffalo, 30.3% in poverty
04. Newark, 26.1% in poverty
05. Miami, 25.6% in poverty
06. Fresno, 25.5% in poverty
07. Cincinnati, 25.1% in poverty
08. Toledo, 24.7% in poverty
09. El Paso, 24.3% in poverty
10. Philadelphia, 24.1% in poverty
11. Milwaukee, 23.4% in poverty
12. Memphis, 23.1% in poverty
13. St. Louis, 22.9% in poverty
14. Dallas, 22.6% in poverty
15. New Orleans, 22.6% in poverty
16. Atlanta, 22.4% in poverty
17. Stockton, Calif., 21.6% in poverty
18. Minneapolis, 21.3% in poverty
19. Pittsburgh, 21.2% in poverty
20. Tucson, 20.9% in poverty
21. Chicago, 20.6% in poverty
22. Columbus, Ohio, 20.1% in poverty
23. Long Beach, Calif., 19.8% in poverty
24. Houston, 19.5% in poverty
25. Los Angeles, 19.4% in poverty

Homicide Rates (2009):
Los Angeles- 308 total murders (8.03 per 100,000 people)
Chicago- 459 total murders (16.08 per 100,000 people)
Philadelphia- 302 total murders (19.61 per 100,000 people)
San Antonio- 96 total murders (7.1 per 100,000 people)
San Diego- 39 total murders (3.05 per 100,000 people)

Philadelphia's Inferiority Complex:
Source One: Philadelphia's Inferiority Complex
Source Two: Philly (http://temple-news.com/2009/05/04/philly%E2%80%99s-inferiority-complex-not-deserved/ - broken link)

Illinois is a donor state it gives more money to the federal government than it gets back, Pennsylvania isn't:


Want to see all the Global World City Rankings?
Here you go:


Foreign Policy:
2010 Ranking
1 New York City
2 London
3 Tokyo
4 Paris
5 Hong Kong
6 Chicago
7 Los Angeles

8 Singapore
9 Sydney
10 Seoul
11 Brussels
12 San Francisco
13 Washington DC

14 Toronto
15 Beijing
16 Berlin
17 Madrid
18 Vienna
19 Boston
20-tie Frankfurt
20-tie Shanghai
22 Buenos Aires
23 Stockholm
24 Zurich
25 Moscow
26 Barcelona
27 Dubai
28 Rome
29 Amsterdam
30 Mexico City
31 Montreal
32 Geneva
33-tie Miami
33-tie Munich
35 Sao Paulo
36 Bangkok
37 Copenhagen
38 Houston
39 Taipei
40 Atlanta
41 Istanbul
42 Milan
43 Cairo
44 Dublin
45 New Delhi
46 Mumbai
47 Osaka
48 Kuala Lumpur
49 Rio de Janeiro
50 Tel Aviv

Chicago comes in 6th in the world
Philadelphia, doesn't even rank

Whats your excuse? Let me guess it, "bu bu but Chicago has more land areas!" yeah right, this is the real world, improve what you have and stop complaining.

Yeah Chicago isn't perfect either, crime exists, poverty exists, Chicago's schools are low, and Chicago just isn't what it was in 1950. But you know something gwilly? Chicagoans can say their city has problems, I have NEVER seen a single Philadelphian say anything that can ruin the Utopian image of their city, and when I would call them out on it "bu bu but, its only in certain neighborhoods" I don't care where the crime and poverty is, the point is there's a lot of it in your city. And Chicago viewed by the world is still by far and away a more important city, in almost every way. Go figure.

To be fair, Chicago has been called a hick country town, it has been bashed repeatedly, it has had words put in its mouth, it has been here trying to prove itself, and it always gets such a terrible wrap for crime when in reality Philadelphia is worse.

On other news, Philadelphia here has been getting hugs and kisses, has been getting off easy and has the pleasure of having such great posters like gwilly over here making sure the Utopia that is Philadelphia continues to shine on. gwilly you always seem to have a problem when even someone from Atlanta says "we're going to surpass Philadelphia" and you call that bashing. Then what is my post? Its murder, right?

And to be fair, I like Philadelphia, its a cool city, I would never live there and you couldn't even pay me $5 Million to live there, I just don't do long term settings with Winters and Philadelphia is okay, not the greatest place in the world like some posters paint it to be but its not bad at all. But yeahh. But this poster has a tendency to go out of his way, bash every city that Philadelphia is put against, not ever contribute anything at all to a conversation, and then bandwagon on what every other Philadelphian is saying making himself contradict what he says and then he leaves.

I don't ever bash cities and I never believed in doing it, but everyone thinks its okay to bash mine.

I know for a fact that I will have 100,000 Philadelphians quoting me, messaging me all kinds of nasty things, and then throwing petty shots at either me or my city (cities), and guess what? I am so ready for it, I am out of here!
Wow, someones upset and must be on their period. You have wayyyy to much time on your hands. This thread is meant for cd posters state their opinion on which is more urban, I don't know how you went on a upset rage tangent.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Denver
6,625 posts, read 14,450,086 times
Reputation: 4201
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
Wow, someones upset and must be on their period. You have wayyyy to much time on your hands. This thread is meant for cd posters state their opinion on which is more urban, I don't know how you went on a upset rage tangent.
Weak on your part...don't cop out and do the classic "ohhh someone's on their period" response just because you have no rebuttal.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:46 PM
 
8,276 posts, read 11,908,519 times
Reputation: 10080
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
I know this is the smallest part of your post, but I think it's hard to put Chicago or Boston ahead of one another in terms of mass transit. You need to zoom in on this map quite a bit (140-150% seemed to be best for me), but when you compare the two maps, they seem on par with one another. Chicago's coverage is more extensive, but Boston's core coverage is better. Overall I'd say they're equal.
They're pretty close in quality, but one facet in which Chicago is superior is that some of its lines run 24/7, whereas in Boston the system shuts down around 1:00 AM..
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:51 PM
 
1,449 posts, read 2,185,449 times
Reputation: 1494
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
Weak on your part...don't cop out and do the classic "ohhh someone's on their period" response just because you have no rebuttal.
I'm just saying, judging by his rhetoric you could clearly tell he was in rage and sounded so irritable you would think he was in pms, not to mention that theres no way in hell I'm gonna waste my time to respond to that epic unnecessary wall of text.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:56 PM
 
1,750 posts, read 3,389,286 times
Reputation: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
They're pretty close in quality, but one facet in which Chicago is superior is that some of its lines run 24/7, whereas in Boston the system shuts down around 1:00 AM..
While I think that 1:00am is a tad early to shut down, a 24/7 system for 95% of the general population is useless, and not that big a deal. I took the Red Line in Chicago several times from Loyola to Fullerton at crazy hours (3am on a Tuesday or 4 am on a Friday), and you could litterally count the number of passangers on one hand.
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