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View Poll Results: Do you still believe Cities/Metros are less influential than their respective states
Yes, states are still more influential than cities/metros 4 15.38%
No, cities have the power to influence regulations of their states and region 7 26.92%
Some cities & their metros are more influential than their states, other cities are not 15 57.69%
Other Option (Please post the option) 0 0%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-18-2010, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,180 posts, read 4,997,635 times
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Are there any Metro Areas that are even more important than their anchor state? By anchor state I mean the state where the principle city is in.

I would have to say yes actually, New York City, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, immediately come to mind and depending on how you look at it, Baltimore too perhaps.

What are the fundamentals of this kind of relationship between these metros & their respective states?
Does it cause to more of a divide between those living in the state and how they view these Metro areas?


New York State's GDP is 1.1 Trillion whereas New York City-NJ-CT CSA's GDP is 1.4 Trillion. Even with MSA New York City's GDP is 1.2 Trillion.

New York State GDP- $1.144 Trillion

Compared to New York City CSA-

New York City-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA CSA $1.434 Trillion
Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT Metro Area $81,389
Kingston, NY Metro Area $4,679
New Haven-Milford, CT Metro Area $37,643
New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA Metro Area $1,264,896
Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown, NY Metro Area $21,029
Torrington, CT Micro Area
Trenton-Ewing, NJ Metro Area $24,458

Boston is another one that comes to mind in this sense:

Massachusetts State GDP- $364 Billion

Compared to Boston CSA

Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH CSA $413.930 Billion
Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH Metro Area $299,590
Concord, NH Micro Area
Manchester-Nashua, NH Metro Area $20,782
Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA Metro Area $65,152
Worcester, MA Metro Area $28,406

The reason I said Baltimore is more important than Maryland is because Baltimore has the benefit of being apart of a larger Metro area with Washington DC which encompasses area from Maryland, parts of West Virginia, & Northern portion of Virginia.

Maryland's State GDP- $273 Billion

Compared to Washington DC-Baltimore CSA-

Washington DC-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV CSA $533.542 Billion
Baltimore-Towson, MD Metro Area $133,012
Lexington Park, MD Micro Area
Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV Metro Area $395,747
Winchester, VA-WV Metro Area $4,783

Philadelphia & Chicago's Metro areas don't surpass their respective anchor states GDP but the influence both have on their state cann deem them to seem like they are more important than their states. For example, those living in the Chicagoland Metro Area in Wisconsin & Indiana are more able to relate to Chicago than to Illinois in general.

Philadelphia in general (at least to me) strikes me more as a city in New Jersey than a city in Pennsylvania. Due how how close Philadelphia's ties are with New Jersey (I would say maybe even closer than that of its ties with Pennsylvania) and the rest of the Northeast Coastal Corridor compared to the inland cities like Pittsburgh & Buffalo.

I agree with this article: http://www.houstontomorrow.org/livab...world-economy/ Which states that states are becoming less relevant and cities and their respective metro areas around the world are becoming the next world powers (respectively). And the signs are all there even in our own country, some of these cities control more and influence more than their own respective states.

Any thoughts about any of this? Can anyone else add in any other Metro Areas that could possibly address the theme of this thread?

Please try to answer the questions in bold.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:14 PM
 
301 posts, read 355,489 times
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informative. I have never thought about NY and Boston having more power than NYS and Mass. before; also interesting link you gave about some cities having more power and influence than even some countries.
great thread danny
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,180 posts, read 4,997,635 times
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By economic output in our US Metros (MSA's) against other countries (January 2010 GDP's):
01. United States of America- $14.4 Trillion
02. Japan- $4.88 Trillion
03. China- $4.32 Trillion
04. Germany- $3.6 Trillion
05. France- $2.84 Trillion
06. United Kingdom- $2.65 Trillion
07. Italy- $2.29 Trillion
08. Russia- $1.67 Trillion
09. Spain- $1.59 Trillion
10. Brazil- $1.57 Trillion
11. Canada- $1.49 Trillion
12. New York City- $1.26 Trillion
13. India- $1.22 Trillion
14. Mexico- $1.08 Trillion
15. Australia- $989 Billion
16. South Korea- $930 Billion
17. Netherlands- $871 Billion
18. Turkey- $726 Billion
19. Los Angeles $717 Billion
20. Poland- $528 Billion
21. Chicago- $520 Billion
22. Indonesia- $510 Billion
23. Belgium- $503 Billion
24. Switzerland- $500 Billion
25. Sweden- $478 Billion
26. Saudi Arabia- $468 Billion
27. Norway- $449 Billion
28. Austria- $412 Billion
29. Houston- $407 Billion
30. Taiwan- $402 Billion
31. Washington DC- $395 Billion
32. Venezuela- $389 Billion
33. Dallas-Fort Worth- $379 Billion
34. Iran- $362 Billion
35. Greece- $349 Billion
36. Denmark- $340 Billion
37. Philadelphia- $331 Billion
38. Argentina- $326 Billion
39. San Francisco-Oakland- $310 Billion
40. Boston- $299 Billion


Source: http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/0110/charts.pdf

I don't want this thread to turn into "well Topeka would have a higher GDP is it had the same land area as Jacksonville" type of thread. It is what it is, and thats it.

An excerpt:
Quote:
The 21st century will not be dominated by America or China, Brazil or India, but by the city. In an age that appears increasingly unmanageable, cities rather than states are becoming the islands of governance on which the future world order will be built. This new world is not—and will not be—one global village, so much as a network of different ones.
The power of some cities can be astonishing, here is another excerpt:
Quote:
New York City’s economy alone is larger than 46 of sub-Saharan Africa’s economies combined. Hong Kong receives more tourists annually than all of India. These cities are the engines of globalization, and their enduring vibrancy lies in money, knowledge, and stability.
Source: Global cities will drive world economy - Houston Tomorrow

I agree with that article. Mods I know other countries aren't supposed to be discussed here and they wont be, we wont be talking about "the beaches in Australia" or whatnot, but I think it is important to see the economic output of our cities compared to the economic output globally even from some of the other countries out there. Please let this one stay as is.

How do people feel about that, 8 us cities and their metro areas are in the top 40 largest economies in the world, competing in output with standalone countries.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:51 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 6,427,688 times
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Interesting; I like this thread. Other cities that come close would be Denver, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Portland, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, and Phoenix. The theme here is states that have just one very large metro which is why I don't think cities in California, Texas, Florida, Ohio, etc. are good candidates here.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,180 posts, read 4,997,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
Interesting; I like this thread. Other cities that come close would be Denver, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Portland, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, and Phoenix. The theme here is states that have just one very large metro which is why I don't think cities in California, Texas, Florida, Ohio, etc. are good candidates here.
Yeah I was going to say that in my first post about California, Texas, Ohio, Florida, & North Carolina. But I am always up for a case to be said and addressed. So I didn't want to cancel anything out of the mix.

I agree, my fingers just got wary at 40, so I stopped there but here are 41-60.

41. South Africa- $276 Billion
42. Thailand- $273 Billion
43. Finland- $270 Billion
44. Atlanta- $269 Billion
45. Ireland- $266 Billion
46. Miami- $261 Billion
47. United Arab Emirates- $254 Billion
48. Portugal- $243 Billion
49. Colombia- $243 Billion
50. Malaysia- $221 Billion
51. Seattle- $218 Billion
52. Czech Republic- $216 Billion
53. Hong Kong- $215 Billion
54. Nigeria- $212 Billion
55. Romania- $202 Billion
56. Israel- $202 Billion
57. Detroit- $200 Billion
58. Minneapolis- $193 Billion

59. Phoenix- $187 Billion
60. Singapore- $181 Billion
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:00 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,262 posts, read 7,689,955 times
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You have it mixed up Danny
Philadelphia is more tied to PA burbs more so than the ones in NJ- however, the southern jersey shore is included in th Philly msa, which is definitely Philly's playground during summer time (which actually gives you a good point) Maybe if Camden didn't crumble, NJ would of been the anchor of the msa.

NYC is the one that has more ties with jersey than NYS itself. Look up the port authority of NY/NJ and you'll see what I mean. NNJ is clearly the anchor of the NYC msa.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:13 PM
 
Location: The City
19,222 posts, read 16,360,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201 View Post
You have it mixed up Danny
Philadelphia is more tied to PA burbs more so than the ones in NJ- however, the southern jersey shore is included in th Philly msa, which is definitely Philly's playground during summer time (which actually gives you a good point) Maybe if Camden didn't crumble, NJ would of been the anchor of the msa.

NYC is the one that has more ties with jersey than NYS itself. Look up the port authority of NY/NJ and you'll see what I mean. NNJ is clearly the anchor of the NYC msa.

I mostly agree above - however in terms of PA Southeastern PA probably is more similar to NJ than it is to PA.

About 1/3rd of the Philly MSA live in NJ versus 45% of the NY MSA - Also none of the South Jersey Shore are in the Philly MSA, they used to be nor is Trenton - with those added S. Jersey would represent the the same % as Jersey to the NYC MSA (They used to be part). Though the South Jersey Shore (LBI being the line of demarcation) is definatley Philly's summer home. Even referenced by Darryl (Moose) Johnson from the Cowboys yesterday on national TV when he said my wife is from Philly we spend our summers in Stone Harbor on hos comments on why he is now a Phillies fan whne discussing during his broadcast of the Eagles Falcons games yesterday. Who would have thought a Cowboy becoming a Phillies fan and I qoute "My house is a Phillies house" (Side tangent by why do Ilike Johnson and Aikman way better in the both than on the field)


On topic:

I would say NYC, Philly, Boston, Chicago, Atlanta all would meet this criteria

On a smaller scale Providence RI also fits

Some others for thought - Denver, Seattle, Phoenix - would these also meet the criteria?
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:14 PM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,576 posts, read 4,236,061 times
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this thread is pretty interesting...

i too have never thought about nyc's economy being *that* powerful.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:15 PM
 
Location: The City
19,222 posts, read 16,360,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNYY View Post
By economic output in our US Metros (MSA's) against other countries (January 2010 GDP's):
01. United States of America- $14.4 Trillion
02. Japan- $4.88 Trillion
03. China- $4.32 Trillion
04. Germany- $3.6 Trillion
05. France- $2.84 Trillion
06. United Kingdom- $2.65 Trillion
07. Italy- $2.29 Trillion
08. Russia- $1.67 Trillion
09. Spain- $1.59 Trillion
10. Brazil- $1.57 Trillion
11. Canada- $1.49 Trillion
12. New York City- $1.26 Trillion
13. India- $1.22 Trillion
14. Mexico- $1.08 Trillion
15. Australia- $989 Billion
16. South Korea- $930 Billion
17. Netherlands- $871 Billion
18. Turkey- $726 Billion
19. Los Angeles $717 Billion
20. Poland- $528 Billion
21. Chicago- $520 Billion
22. Indonesia- $510 Billion
23. Belgium- $503 Billion
24. Switzerland- $500 Billion
25. Sweden- $478 Billion
26. Saudi Arabia- $468 Billion
27. Norway- $449 Billion
28. Austria- $412 Billion
29. Houston- $407 Billion
30. Taiwan- $402 Billion
31. Washington DC- $395 Billion
32. Venezuela- $389 Billion
33. Dallas-Fort Worth- $379 Billion
34. Iran- $362 Billion
35. Greece- $349 Billion
36. Denmark- $340 Billion
37. Philadelphia- $331 Billion
38. Argentina- $326 Billion
39. San Francisco-Oakland- $310 Billion
40. Boston- $299 Billion

Source: http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/0110/charts.pdf

I don't want this thread to turn into "well Topeka would have a higher GDP is it had the same land area as Jacksonville" type of thread. It is what it is, and thats it.

An excerpt:


The power of some cities can be astonishing, here is another excerpt:


Source: Global cities will drive world economy - Houston Tomorrow

I agree with that article. Mods I know other countries aren't supposed to be discussed here and they wont be, we wont be talking about "the beaches in Australia" or whatnot, but I think it is important to see the economic output of our cities compared to the economic output globally even from some of the other countries out there. Please let this one stay as is.

How do people feel about that, 8 us cities and their metro areas are in the top 40 largest economies in the world, competing in output with standalone countries.

Another way to look at is is Income generated by residents - not sure if the states are available - but this is the money that flows through the workers in the region

Total Personal Income for U.S. Metropolitan Areas, 2009
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:21 PM
 
Location: The City
19,222 posts, read 16,360,887 times
Reputation: 5686
On the question though I am not sure that influence on regulations is always felt, in PA, there is Philly (and Pittsburgh to a lessor extent) and then many more rural interests which often trump Philly to it's detriment in state politics, The rural population is very large and powerful in PA politics, oddly moreso than is Philly

Although our governor is quite the Eagles fan (What other state has a governor who also chaired the National Democratic commitee who swears on Eagles post game live every week - a Governor I can stand behind!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RgEpfpt6lI
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