Greater San Francisco V.S. Greater New York City. Whos the best in the USA? (largest, quality)

[goonzy]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Your question is not truly easily answered. Overall much of th money spent satys in the metro, so better to the whole. Also with different states monies go to building and maintaining infrastructure for the better of the area, many times in coordination. On trash/police/schools most is paid by the local muncipality not really a huge state influence on that.

And just one other piece for perspective, Oakland you are correct is more seperated functionally than is JC with its multiple rail, ferry, and road connections - plus on the whole it is consistently closer along its whole border

I agree the states have an additional nuance but from a practical standpoint the area just flows seemless. I am in and out of different states on nearly a daily basis and never even give it a second thought. I never feel like I left where I came from. I can tell you from a Philly perspective I feel far more connected and intertwined with Jersey than the vast majority of PA - Mostly NYC has a similar relationship

SF does not, CA is a huge state so state lines play no bearing but you act like they are Federal Border or something

States are federal borders, LOL. Thats why you do federal time if you commit a crime and cross state lines. LOL

I do hear you though on that spending money in Jersey City is good from the perspective of the entire NYC metro area. Just like I would rather spend my money in Oakland then in Los Angeles because it would go to help maintaining the East Bay region witch is part of the BAY AREA. But from a San Francisco point of view, we get nothing regardless if you spend your money in Oakland or Los Angeles. What we do get from spending money in LA and Oakland is much needed state revenue. To help maintain our state parks, our UC and CSU and community college system, our CHP officers, our freeways, and unemployment benifits and a million more things I dont have time to name. But Because NY and NJ are differnt states, you guys dont get that extra benifit like us San Franciscans do if we were to spend money in LA or San Diego.

[goonzy]

Originally Posted by Gantz

State borders are not the same as federal borders.

I think what you are trying to say is that federal borders are not the same as international borders.
Right ?

[goonzy]

Originally Posted by Hendu

You're not looking at all of the factors here - a large number of the people who live in that part of Jersey work in NYC and therefore pay NY state income tax. You do not pay income tax to the state you reside, but the state you work and then you claim a credit when filing with your home state so you don't get double taxed.

Okay I hear you on the part where you said New Jerseyans pay taxes to NY because thats where they work, yeah thats good for NYC.
But that wasnt the question!!!!!!!!!
The question was the opposite of the one you answered.
Question is; how does paying income tax in New Jersey benifit the state or the city of NEW York?

the simple answer is it dosnt.
But lets see what you got to say about this. Answer my question, not your own version of my question! but answer my actual question.

[Hendu]

In that specific case of course it doesn't, but the money flows both ways. There are NJ residents paying NY income tax, and there are NY residents paying NJ income tax. It all evens out.

[missRoxyhart]

Originally Posted by goonzy

So, you can go from the downtown oaklands bart station and be in san franciscos downtown in about 10-15 minutes. That dosnt change the fact that Oakland is in the EAST BAY. I dont care if they built a teleporter from dwnt oakland to dwtn SF where it would take 3.7 seconds to get from one place to another. Oakland is still the East Bay on the other side of the bridge and San Fran is and always will be the West Bay. Its that simple and same can be said with jersey and NYC.
How close one place is to another isnt what determines locality.
No one here has used my San Diego and Tijuana example.
Is it fair to say that SD and Tijuana are the same beacsue both cities are directly next to each other, never mind an international border, thats just a colonial arbitrary line.
NO, you cant say that, these political lines DO MATTER. STOP SAYING THEY DONT!!!!!!!
Well thank you for sticking to the original discussion of this thread.
NYC does seem more popular then SF.

I touched on it, but like I said, you ignore everything you can't answer. Here, let me make it easy for you.

Originally Posted by missRoxyhart

You're the one who needs a reality check, and your "logic" is one giant hole. I already explained to you why state borders in different areas of the country don't matter but you ignore every post you can't answer. I cross the "border" between CT and MA everyday for school, and there is no culture shock, it's the same local region and there's no difference. That's life in the smaller states of a single country, wrap your head around that if you can try. It's cute how you try to pretend an international border and state line are the same thing, but your argument is not logical. A state border is not a national border, why don't you try to get that straight first. If you actually believe that's a comparable example, you're deluded. A state line makes no difference in an area where the local culture simply crosses over it, it isn't SF or all of CA over here, and it's not SD and Tijuana, but that's how it is here so get over it already. State lines DO NOT impact our daily lives in areas like these.

The difference of legal entities and which star we might be on the flag means nothing to people right across the river, or road, or a mile down the highway, or whatever from each other. You think the people in NYC relate more to people on the other side of Long Island than to the people right across the river who they share work, transportation, local culture, and living space with? And you wanna ask a real New Yorker? Here I am already telling you that JC is much more the "6th Borough" than LI, pretty much any NYer would tell you the same. Have you lived in NY? Its obvious you haven't, and you already admitted to us you have no expertise in the area. It's really laughable that you somehow think all of Long Island is more connected to the city, or that all of Marin County is more connected to SF for that matter, than JC or NNJ to NYC. You're definition of NY is wrong and completely imaginary, and that's all there is to it.

Seriously, how deluded could you be to think that the SD-Tijuana example is comparable to the different state line situations in the Northeast? Guess what,there is a difference, a huge one. It's as ridiculous as comparing the border between two neighbors' yards to the border between Spanish colonies in N. Africa and surrounding Morocco. It's just not a logical comparison so you can get off it already. The national guarded international border between the US and Mexico is not the same thing as an arbitrary state line people cross over with a thought every day.

All it looks like is you're just completely oblivious to the dynamics of state, local, and metro workings outside of CA. County government is a big thing in CA right? I'd love to see how you'd react to the New England Town system, no county governments, every inch of a state is incorporated and is split between every town and city and counties exist in name only.

I already gave you my example anyway. I go to school in another state everyday, and me and a million and more other people cross the line several times a day on both sides for work, school, entertainment, shopping, everything, and our heads don't explode from the culture shock. Who do you think the people in Hampden County, MA can more identify with? The people on the other side of the state in Boston or on the Cape, or the rest of the people in the CT River Valley just down the highway. It isn't Boston. They talk the same as us, and live and work with us, the state line means NOTHING in our daily lives. Like your assertion before that NYCers could more easily identify with Buffalo than NJers, you're just outright wrong.

Stop trying to pretend that there is some kind of comparability between a national border and a state line, especially in a part of the country where it pretty much matters the least. It's not logical at all, not one bit, and not a good argument at all so find a new one.

[goonzy]

I feel like a 1 man answering machine. You guys have questions and comments and I got answers.
I will not give up on this thread until the majority of people understand that
NYC is not NJ, and in fact they are 2 differnt sub economies in the greater NYC metro.
Just like the Bay Area is divided into 4 so is the NYC metro divided into 4 sub regions.

Look we are all on the same page that Jersey City is part of the NYC metro area and that Oakland is part of the SF Bay Area.
What im trying to convay is that we can further divide the metro areas of SF and NYC into 4 sub regions. And what I wanted to do is compare the NYC/Long Island sub region of the greater NYC metro area to the SF/Peninsula sub region of the greater Bay Area.
Thats all im trying to say. Im trying to keep it simple.
Now maybe the problem is, that maybe some peolpe feel it is unfair to sub divide the greater NYC metro area. Or maybe they dont agree with my sub divisions.
All I know is that the Greater NYC metro area can be divided into 4 sub regions.
1.The New York City-Long Island area
2. The Northern New Jersey area
3. Lower Hudson Valley counties area
4. Conneticut

The Bay Area can also be divided in 4 sub regions.
1. SF peninsula area
2. East Bay
3.Silicon Valley
4.North Bay(wine country)

Does anyone disagree with this sub-regional divisions? For this is the point of the thread!!

[goonzy]

Originally Posted by Hendu

In that specific case of course it doesn't, but the money flows both ways. There are NJ residents paying NY income tax, and there are NY residents paying NJ income tax. It all evens out.

No it dosnt even out. Obviously NYC is the benifactor and NJ gets screwed.

[missRoxyhart]

Originally Posted by goonzy

I feel like a 1 man answering machine. You guys have questions and comments and I got answers.
I will not give up on this thread until the majority of people understand that
NYC is not NJ, and in fact they are 2 differnt sub economies in the greater NYC metro.
Just like the Bay Area is divided into 4 so is the NYC metro divided into 4 sub regions.

Look we are all on the same page that Jersey City is part of the NYC metro area and that Oakland is part of the SF Bay Area.
What im trying to convay is that we can further divide the metro areas of SF and NYC into 4 sub regions. And what I wanted to do is compare the NYC/Long Island sub region of the greater NYC metro area to the SF/Peninsula sub region of the greater Bay Area.
Thats all im trying to say. Im trying to keep it simple.
Now maybe the problem is, that maybe some peolpe feel it is unfair to sub divide the greater NYC metro area. Or maybe they dont agree with my sub divisions.
All I know is that the Greater NYC metro area can be divided into 4 sub regions.
1.The New York City-Long Island area
2. The Northern New Jersey area
3. Lower Hudson Valley counties area
4. Conneticut

The Bay Area can also be divided in 4 sub regions.
1. SF peninsula area
2. East Bay
3.Silicon Valley
4.North Bay(wine country)

Does anyone disagree with this sub-regional divisions? For this is the point of the thread!!

Your NY region sud-division is wrong because you assume that the whole of LI belongs more with NYC than NNJ, and your only basis for that argument seems to be that they're in different states which many of us have already explained to you several times doesn't matter. Yes, we all disagree with your sub-divisions.

[Hendu]

Originally Posted by goonzy

No it dosnt even out. Obviously NYC is the benifactor and NJ gets screwed.

No because NJ gets a lot of off-shoot business from NYC that they wouldn't otherwise get on their own...for example, companies that want to save some money on office space can opt for Jersey instead of Manhattan.

Meanwhile the people living in NJ and working in NY are still paying local property tax and NJ sales tax so it's not like Jersey is getting nothing from them. And there are a lot of reverse commuters from NYC into Jersey as well.

[kidphilly]

Why do you care if NNJ is affiliated or not, NYC alone beats just about every place else in country if you include their whole metro - SF included

So are DC and Arlington not related or Bethesda MD for that matter?