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If you still think you can compare any part of New Jersey to San Francisco you are insane. Why not compare it to London or Paris while you at it?
Please read the thread title before making making yourself sound ridiculous.
The thread concerns URBANITY. Anyone with half a brain knows that portions of NJ are comparable to SF in urbanity. In fact, the densest cities in the nation are in NJ.
And yeah, obviously parts of NJ can be compared to European cities in terms of density.
Newark and Downtown sandwich JC and Hoboken. I'm not adding them on. It's just a figure- ATL is 135 square miles, do you know what would happen if you gave JC/Hoboken 135 square mile to work with instead of 16?- Once you look at that figure alone- The answer to "Who's more urban?" is obvious. ATL would shudder in comparison if it only had 16 sqmi to work with.
When you limit JC and Hoboken to their tiny land area, they're not going to look too significant or world class (especially with the monstrosity living next door)- But they are definitely urban- why try to pry that away from them? They have better PT, higher density, more walkable neighborhoods, complete access to all sorts of job markets, and they're extremely diverse (all more so than ATL)-- Hoboken and JC can be thriving, accessible, urban places to live, it's just straight stupidity to try and say they're nothing but suburbs- There has to be a inferiority complex that goes along with that argument
There you go with the density argument... which is your only argument bty. I disagree about you 16 mile argument. I believe that Midtown Atlanta is more densely populated than JC in that regard... not that it matters. It would def. not shudder though. The sparsely populated south Atlanta and downtown with the major parking lot for the 3 pro sports teams, 2 convention centers, and more major things JC lacks take up a lot of space and bring down the density numbers. Furthermore Atlanta is one of the most thriving, accessible urban places to live.
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Originally Posted by BPerone201
What exactly makes ATL more urban?... It has more people and it sprawls for miles on end? Please explain what makes ATL more urban than JC, or Hudson County for that matter. I haven't heard a peep. ATL is a great city with plenty to offer, and it has it's urban areas, but no... Don't compare its urbanity to any city in the NYC metro area.
For one it has a larger urbanized area and a larger urbanized population with more urban options and amennities.
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Originally Posted by BPerone201
Scratch the "Suburban' topic- That can go on all day- But that doesn't make them any less urban. .
I never said these places were not urban they just played a suburban funtion to NYC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201
JC/Hoboken are in the midst of the most urban region of America. NYC is NYC, but no one can deny the impact NYC has made on the immediate area- I'm not wheeling the two together, it's just "why" JC/Hob are the way they are. IT is what it is, it's pointless to be in denial about it.
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It has... that's why JC is a suburb of NYC, but you brought NYC into the picture like it was part of the discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201
And for one, I NEVER said JC was more urban than SF. SF has the more thriving urban core, I mentioned it, posted pics, and gave it its props... You're the one who brought one of the least urban cities in America into this... ATL.
No I didn't... You did
BPerone
"You should of edited that- I'm not saying you're wrong, but the sentence structure was a little loopy
A suburb? A "suburb" more urban than ATL, and most cities across the nation? Are you sure you want to stick with that claim "Suburb"- A satellite city is more like it."
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
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What makes San Francisco as a whole or Atlanta more urban than Jersey City/Hoboken? City wide, Jersey City & Hoboken maintain larger city densities than San Francisco, which in fact may have a higher peak density within the city, but overall its city density doesn't reflect it to be the clear and above winner. So why are we arguing like idiots about basic and common facts? The places are comparable in this matter.
Like seriously. Skyscrapers don't do anything to make a place urban. Not anywhere near as much as people think. And Chicago is an example of that statement. People think skyscrapers makes Chicago urban? Hell no the area where the skyscrapers are gets to be dead after work hours during weekday nights.
The urban areas of Chicago are the mid-rise residential areas north of the river. Not the actual Downtown Chicago.
There you go with the density argument... which is your only argument bty. I disagree about you 16 mile argument. I believe that Midtown Atlanta is more densely populated than JC in that regard... not that it matters. It would def. not shudder though. The sparsely populated south Atlanta and downtown with the major parking lot for the 3 pro sports teams, 2 convention centers, and more major things JC lacks take up a lot of space and bring down the density numbers. Furthermore Atlanta is one of the most thriving, accessible urban places to live.
For one it has a larger urbanized area and a larger urbanized population with more urban options and amennities.
I never said these places were not urban they just played a suburban funtion to NYC.
It has... that's why JC is a suburb of NYC, but you brought NYC into the picture like it was part of the discussion
No I didn't... You did
BPerone
"You should of edited that- I'm not saying you're wrong, but the sentence structure was a little loopy
A suburb? A "suburb" more urban than ATL, and most cities across the nation? Are you sure you want to stick with that claim "Suburb"- A satellite city is more like it."
Make a poll, IDC- ATL doesn't touch Hudson County in terms of urbanity.. I don't need to read any more of your points- it's just gonna go back and forth. Just get ATL out of here.
ATL is a great city with more to offer due to geographical land size, but don't try and argue that it's also more urban than Hudson County- That's just being totally and utterly bias and ignorant.
What ATL has over Hudson is the fact that it's a stand alone city.
What Hudson has over ATL is Urbanity and location.
There you go with the density argument... which is your only argument bty.
The thread is about URBANITY. So, duh, obviously density is a critical component.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theATLien
I disagree about you 16 mile argument. I believe that Midtown Atlanta is more densely populated than JC in that regard... not that it matters.
You're completely wrong (obviously, Midtown Atlanta is mostly detached single family homes with leafy yards), and yes, obviously it matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theATLien
The sparsely populated south Atlanta and downtown with the major parking lot for the 3 pro sports teams, 2 convention centers, and more major things JC lacks take up a lot of space and bring down the density numbers.
That's great, except it's totally irrelevent to the thread topic.
While you're at it, why not bring up the number of Atlanta golf courses, jet ski outlets, rest stops, Waffle Houses and balls of twine?
Sorry, but there is no separation of the definition of the term 'urban' as it relates to the US and its various counterparts.
Fine dining, sports teams and even jobs, while good things, are NOT urban traits. That is not what makes a city urban. By your definition Anchorage, AK would be considered urban.
Lastly, you should look at my post you previously quoted. Jersey City does have a small metro within the larger NY-metro. JC's pmetro encompasses all of Hudson County:
Oxford Dictionary of Architecture & Landscaping: satellite town Top Home > Library > Home & Garden > Architecture and Landscaping
Town, self-contained and limited in size, built in the vicinity of a large town or city to house and employ those who would otherwise create a demand for expansion of the existing settlement, but dependent on the parent-city to a certain extent for population and major services. Although not to be confused with Garden Cities, satellite towns were influenced by Ebenezer Howard's theories. A distinction is also to be made between a consumer-satellite (essentially a dormitory suburb with few facilities) and a production-satellite (with capacity for commercial, industrial, and other production distinct from that of the parent town, so a New Town).
Ok... Look. We are splitting hairs.
My point was JC/ Hoboken as a secondary city, suburb, or satellite city (as you say) has no business comparing to premiere cities of major metros that provide much more urban offerings that someone in these cities have to commute to NYC to enjoy.
My point was JC/ Hoboken as a secondary city, suburb, or satellite city (as you say) has no business comparing to premiere cities of major metros that provide much more urban offerings that someone in these cities have to commute to NYC to enjoy.
Ok, that's fine, but Atlanta wouldn't be one of those cities, because Atlanta isn't more urban.
It isn't even close. The most urban Atlanta neighborhood doesn't have the structural density of a Hackensack, to say nothing of Hoboken or Jersey City.
Again, NO ONE who isn't somehow an Atlanta homer would even compare the two. Atlanta is almost 100% postwar suburban, even blocks from downtown.
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take up a lot of space and bring down the density numbers. Furthermore Atlanta is one of the most thriving, accessible urban places to live.
