Saint Louis Vs. Cleveland (live, state, better, places)

[DANNYY]

Criteria:
- Weather
- Sports (Professional)
- Education (Higher Ed)
- Education (K-12)
- Dining
- Downtown
- Architecture (Who is better?)
- Location
- Public Transportation
- Economy (Larger)
- Economy (Healthier)
- Population (Loss/Gain?)
- Scenery
- Activities
- Roads
- Parks
- Shopping
- Anything else I might have missed

[slengel]

two great cities. i'll take a stab at it.

- Weather - winter: stl, summer: cle
- Sports (Professional) - draw
- Education (Higher Ed) - stl. wash. u. alone can take credit for this one.
- Education (K-12) - draw. both cities proper have awful public school systems.
- Dining - st. louis, because its popular neighborhoods have more options and it's a larger metro area.
- Downtown - draw. both are getting better and both are in need of a lot more work.
- Architecture (Who is better?) - st. louis by far. cleveland is a frame town, which presents a much less attractive contrast to st. louis's signature red brick. everything in st. louis is solid brick, and there is much more of an historic atmosphere in stl.
- Location - cleveland? it's closer to other major cities, although it's hard to top stl's central geography.
- Public Transportation - draw. cleveland has higher bus ridership; st. louis has higher rail ridership.
- Economy (Larger) - st. louis
- Economy (Healthier) - st. louis
- Population (Loss/Gain?) - st. louis, which is modestly increasing in both city and metro pop. cleveland is losing in both.
- Scenery - draw?
- Activities - draw
- Roads - probably cleveland. st. louis has a much worse traffic problem.
- Parks - st. louis, due to the presence of forest park, to which cleveland has no equal.
- Shopping - draw
- history - st. louis, easily.

[chitown85]

Criteria:
- Weather

St. Louis winters are not nearly as cold, not as much lake effect snow, and summers are way more hot and humid. Vote goes to STL.

- Sports (Professional)

About even as both have all the major pro sports teams except St. Louis doesn't have basketball. But the Cards over the Indians. So even.

- Education (Higher Ed)

Also even. STL has SLU and Washington Univ- STL. Cleveland has Case Western and Cleveland State.

- Education (K-12)

Unsure, but Ohio tends in general to have better schools than Missouri. Though both being rust belt cities, they are both probably equally as bad.

- Dining

Downtown Cleveland has seen a resurgance in restaurants.

- Downtown

Cleveland. Most young professionals in STL hang out in a few select suburbs.

- Architecture (Who is better?)

Don't they look the same??

- Location

Depends if someone wants to be near Memphis and Little Rock or Pittsburgh and Toledo.

- Public Transportation

Cleveland.

- Economy (Larger)

Cleveland.

- Economy (Healthier)

STL.

- Population (Loss/Gain?)

Cleveland has lost less people in real numbers and per capita, but not by much.

- Scenery

Cleveland is on the lake and STL near the Ozarks. I am not a mountain or campin person so I go with Cleveland.

- Activities

Cleveland has more "things" to do in the city than STL. But that's just my opinion.

- Roads

Both are pretty decent.

- Parks

STL. The park with the Arch is pretty cool.

- Shopping

Downtown Cleveland wins.

- Anything else I might have missed

Overall, I think both are pretty comparative Midwest cities. They are decent places to live and have some nightlife and other things to do as well. Not bad places to live or raise a family.

Minneapolis, Cleveland, and STL all strike me as similar 3rd tier cities.

Tier 1= Chicago in the midwest and Tier 2= Detroit in the midwest.

[slengel]

chitown85, i wonder where you get some of your info. is there any evidence that cleveland has a larger economy? st. louis has a bigger gmp. you are right that st. louis does not have basketball, but cleveland doesn't have hockey. also, wherever did you get the idea that "all the young professionals in st. louis hang out in a few select suburbs"? that is the most ridiculous thing i've read in a long time and is patently false. st. louis is 3 hours from the ozarks, btw.

i agree that they are very comparable cities.

[JohnDBaumgardner]

Originally Posted by chitown85

Criteria:
- Weather

St. Louis winters are not nearly as cold, not as much lake effect snow, and summers are way more hot and humid. Vote goes to STL.

- Sports (Professional)

About even as both have all the major pro sports teams except St. Louis doesn't have basketball. But the Cards over the Indians. So even.

- Education (Higher Ed)

Also even. STL has SLU and Washington Univ- STL. Cleveland has Case Western and Cleveland State.

- Education (K-12)

Unsure, but Ohio tends in general to have better schools than Missouri. Though both being rust belt cities, they are both probably equally as bad.

- Dining

Downtown Cleveland has seen a resurgance in restaurants.

- Downtown

Cleveland. Most young professionals in STL hang out in a few select suburbs.

- Architecture (Who is better?)

Don't they look the same??

- Location

Depends if someone wants to be near Memphis and Little Rock or Pittsburgh and Toledo.

- Public Transportation

Cleveland.

- Economy (Larger)

Cleveland.

- Economy (Healthier)

STL.

- Population (Loss/Gain?)

Cleveland has lost less people in real numbers and per capita, but not by much.

- Scenery

Cleveland is on the lake and STL near the Ozarks. I am not a mountain or campin person so I go with Cleveland.

- Activities

Cleveland has more "things" to do in the city than STL. But that's just my opinion.

- Roads

Both are pretty decent.

- Parks

STL. The park with the Arch is pretty cool.

- Shopping

Downtown Cleveland wins.

- Anything else I might have missed

Overall, I think both are pretty comparative Midwest cities. They are decent places to live and have some nightlife and other things to do as well. Not bad places to live or raise a family.

Minneapolis, Cleveland, and STL all strike me as similar 3rd tier cities.

Tier 1= Chicago in the midwest and Tier 2= Detroit in the midwest.

I agree with the majority of the aforementioned statements ^^
To be fair, St. Louis and Cleveland BOTH offer wonderful attributes and amenities ...

Both cities have very interesting histories and roles in the shaping of America

Naturally, I favour Cleveland tho ... and not only because I reside here. Cleveland has better and more world renowned cultural endowments ... Cleveland Museum Of Art ( ONE OF AMERICAS TOP 5 ), Cleveland Orchestra, Playhouse Square ( 2nd only to Broadway in NYC ), Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Museum, Western Reserve Historical Society and countless others ...

I also prefer Cleveland's natural beauty and landscape to that of St. Louis

Both cities can claim various merits to be certain, but I'll stick with Cleveland

[chitown85]

Originally Posted by slengel

chitown85, i wonder where you get some of your info. is there any evidence that cleveland has a larger economy? st. louis has a bigger gmp. you are right that st. louis does not have basketball, but cleveland doesn't have hockey. also, wherever did you get the idea that "all the young professionals in st. louis hang out in a few select suburbs"? that is the most ridiculous thing i've read in a long time and is patently false. st. louis is 3 hours from the ozarks, btw.

i agree that they are very comparable cities.

I did forget Cleveland doesn't have hockey. But I equalized the statement by saying the pro sports is comparable.

I base my statement about STL nightlife on my friends who stayed there post college. They preferred suburban nightlife.

I know STL is 3 hours from the Ozarks. But this still makes it a day trip. Cleveland only has the lake. 3 hours from Cleveland is flat prairie grass unless one is going to Pittsburgh, Toledo, or Youngstown.

What I meant was, if people prefer mountains and camping, STL would win because that stuff is more than a day or weekend trip from Cleveland.

[brent6969]

Really both are gross. Sorry.

[CTownNative]

Im from Cleveland, but have been to St Louis before. The cities are very similar, and if i was to go down the criteria list I'd put draw for almost everything. I'd give Cleveland the slight edge just because Im from there and so thus alot more familiar with it, but St Louis is a cool city.

[Aficionado]

Originally Posted by brent6969

Really both are gross. Sorry.

LMAO why do you say that?

I haven't made it to Cleveland just yet but I've been to St. Louis countless times, and it is truly a great city, VERY underrated on C-D IMO.

Just don't ride the tram to the top of the Gateway Arch if you are anywhere near as claustrophobic as I am, and you should be okay.

[Smtchll]

Originally Posted by brent6969

Really both are gross. Sorry.

gotta love that ATL snobbery. Sorry we don't all live in the center of the universe.