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As an example, Downtown Atlanta totally blows Center City out of the water when it comes to the Convention industry and number of hotel rooms. Downtown Atlanta's role has evolved over time. It is still important, but the uses and activities have changed. It is also more residential than at any point in its history now, and that segment is only growing.
There is nothing in the US outside of manhatten that blows Center City out of the water.
As an example, Downtown Atlanta totally blows Center City out of the water when it comes to the Convention industry and number of hotel rooms. Downtown Atlanta's role has evolved over time. It is still important, but the uses and activities have changed. It is also more residential than at any point in its history now, and that segment is only growing.
While that is well and good, Philadelphia BTW is completing the expansion of the convention center which will be the largest in the NE when cmpleted and adding 3,000 hotel rooms over the next 5 years related to the convention expansion, And honestly after DC among those listed I would agree Atlanta may have the most mixed use DT (especially if you lump MT in which there is a good case for) among the multi core but overall would not have the same level of sustained vibrance as the core focused cities, nor would they have as much vibrance in the multi-core. Case in point KOP in Philly has more office space than DT Atlanta yet is not a cohesive as many of the perimter areas of an Atlanta or Houston, and this area (KOP) is mostly a glorified office park with a mall where the newer developing multi/fringe areas are doing a brtter job with mixed use and moderate vibrancy
We can agree to disagree, to me NYC has a extremely centralized core, albeit large, much different to me than the composition of Atlanta with all the perimeter centers, some with more office space than downtown etc..
Oustide of Having a place called downtown and midtown I really fail to see many functional similarities to NYC and Atlanta as the core relates to the area be it residential or not, to me it is actually the dense pack of the residential areas that radiate and intertwine with the core that actually make the core more significant/centralized - Multi-core cities have much further removed mutli cores with looser cohesion and density in between. Single cores are more centralized with raditing density from the core. Given a central core or multi core to NYC is extremely centralized and Atlanta is not, maybe not as decentralized as Dallas but much closer to this function than it is is to NYC
And honestly although there is a linear connection in Atlanta between DT/MT/BH they still feel very seperate, in Manhattan yes DT/MT have a different feel but the cohesion is far greater. That being said in many ways is why I left NYC off in the first place
I think in some ways though a top of mind exercise may hold a simple way to categorize.
Wen you think of Philadelphia Center City is paramount, When you think of Houston there are multiple areas that some to mind, now this is vastly over simplified but to me when thinking of NYC, you think Manhattan (as the core place)
And to me it is also not only business but also the functional core residential areas, also either more or less focused
I take two exceptions to this. First of all, I don't consider Perimeter Center to be a part of the "urban core" of Atlanta by any means. And again, I am in NO WAY equating Atlanta to New York, with the exception of the historical, linear march of development from the traditional core northward (just like what happened in New York). You need to remember that we as a city are still in our infancy, which is hardly the case with New York.
Secondly, Downtown and Midtown are separated by one street, North Ave. There is simply no break in development.
I guess we are coming back full-cricle to the old density argument here, but that is not what I thought this thread was about. Guess I was wrong.
What are DC's many downtowns? Arlington, Bethesda, etc?
Yes mostly, the fringe areas in DC are much more prominent than tradional core cities even though the core of DC is very large, I would even throw in areas like Tysons/Rockville/Silver Spring/Rosslyn etc.
While that is well and good, Philadelphia BTW is completing the expansion of the convention center which will be the largest in the NE when cmpleted and adding 3,000 hotel rooms over the next 5 years related to the convention expansionl.
I understand this, and have actually been following the expansion on another site. It's a great thing for Philly. We have been a top five convention city for several decades now, and it is certainly one of the major backbones of our economy. That's the reason a downtown with less office space than City Center has thousands more hotel rooms.
I posted what I did in response to killakoolaides ridiculous "insufficient" claim, nothing more.
While that is well and good, Philadelphia BTW is completing the expansion of the convention center which will be the largest in the NE when cmpleted and adding 3,000 hotel rooms over the next 5 years related to the convention expansion, And honestly after DC among those listed I would agree Atlanta may have the most mixed use DT (especially if you lump MT in which there is a good case for) among the multi core but overall would not have the same level of sustained vibrance as the core focused cities, nor would they have as much vibrance in the multi-core. Case in point KOP in Philly has more office space than DT Atlanta yet is not a cohesive as many of the perimter areas of an Atlanta or Houston, and this area (KOP) is mostly a glorified office park with a mall where the newer developing multi/fringe areas are doing a brtter job with mixed use and moderate vibrancy
KoP does suck, but in fairness to the KoP area, its not like its surrounded by nothing or in the middle of nowhere. Its adjacent to th urban suburbs that are Norristown and Conshohocken. Its right next to Valley Forge, and from what I here the Norristown high speed line is being extended to go out there, and a new pedestrian friendly developement(the village) is being built near it. Basically the whole area is trying to keep pace with tysons corner, which, at the moment, is well ahead.
I take two exceptions to this. First of all, I don't consider Perimeter Center to be a part of the "urban core" of Atlanta by any means. And again, I am in NO WAY equating Atlanta to New York, with the exception of the historical, linear march of development from the traditional core northward (just like what happened in New York). You need to remember that we as a city are still in our infancy, which is hardly the case with New York.
Secondly, Downtown and Midtown are separated by one street, North Ave. There is simply no break in development.
I guess we are coming back full-cricle to the old density argument here, but that is not what I thought this thread was about. Guess I was wrong.
I think density plays a role in that it more defines the composition of place and at some level the significance of the dowtown relative to peripheral areas especially from a development standpoint (even impacts on highways and transit, to dismiss this as an aspect of development to me would be shortsighted but it is not the only aspect). Atlanta does have a core but also has more peripheral areas that have more significant prominance relative to the core, or less of a disparity so to speak. Atlanta is a little more of a hybrid to me personally than a Houston or Dallas as the other large cities with similar composition but would still say that the metro has more of a multi core/center composition relative to the other cities. I actually am curious to hear more of the benefits and drawbaks to the development types and personally wish an area like KOP had more of sunbeltish perimeter feel. I dont think there is a pure answer on which is better, i prefer an uber vibrant core but think there are aspects of both that can be very beneficial
I think density plays a role in that it more defines the composition of place and at some level the significance of the dowtown relative to peripheral areas especially from a development standpoint (even impacts on highways and transit, to dismiss this as an aspect of development to me would be shortsighted but it is not the only aspect). Atlanta does have a core but also has more peripheral areas that have more significant prominance relative to the core, or less of a disparity so to speak. Atlanta is a little more of a hybrid to me personally than a Houston or Dallas as the other large cities with similar composition but would still say that the metro has more of a multi core/center composition relative to the other cities. I actually am curious to hear more of the benefits and drawbaks to the development types and personally wish an area like KOP had more of sunbeltish perimeter feel. I dont think there is a pure answer on which is better, i prefer an uber vibrant core but think there are aspects of both that can be very beneficial
I agree with this. I'm old enough to barely remember when Downtown was still the center of everything, and I still miss it playing that role.
As far as Perimeter Center goes, it really doesn't get the credit it deserves, in my opinion. It is probably the best edge city I've witnessed, and is years ahead of Tysons. Streetscape improvements have been ongoing for several years now, heavy rail is already in place, and mixed-use and residential developments have already really taken hold. It's also surrounded by very desirable residential areas on all sides.
Do I wish all of this development had been Downtown? Yes. It is what it is though, and at least they are remaking it into a much more cohesive, attractive and livable area. The changes over the last five years alone have been unbelievable. I really haven't seen examples of modern office buildings being demolished for new mixed-use and residential development on this scale anywhere else. As an example, this is the next one on the books: Welcome to High Street
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I'm old enough to barely remember when Downtown was still the center of everything, and I still miss it playing that role.
